USA Today article: "Transformers: Good knight vs. bad"

Never thought about the Transformers as knights but I guess in a way it works. Nice read.

'But the gun that Megatron used to transform into had to go. Says Orci, "That would be the equivalent of Darth Vader turning into his own lightsaber and someone else swinging him around."'

Hahahaha, that's so funny

Optimus = King Arthur?

I thought Optimus = John Wayne.

But, I can see that they are comparing him to King Arthur through both of their leadership.

The references to politics concern me.

I frankly think that hollywoods desire to preach in nearly every single movie is something that turns off moviegoers. Or more explicitly the desire to inject preachiness into totally unrelated productions.

I really hope we don't get some sort of "To avoid Cybertrons fate the earth people must listen to Al Gore" type message.

Transformers was always fairly good at avoiding contentious cultural issues whilst generally affirming a positive viewpoint.

I tell you I was very disappointed when I saw Devils Due making the whole "Republicans = Decepticons" angle in escalation, and Im really really really hoping they can avoid that in the movie.

Though it might be too much to ask.

It is interesting. I have to agree about Megs turning into a gun...he can't control his own power in that mode. how many cartoon eps and comics did his power get turned against the troops he commanded? Beast Wars was really the first Series where Megatron was able to use and control his own power rather than relying on someone else.
I didn't see any reference to an alt mode...I have to admit they are doing a hell of job of keeping his altmode secret from the public...and his Earth altmode secret from us.

Funny. I've always thought of them as knights, since the first Marvel comics because they look and act like people in metal suits.

Megs' cybertron jet mode is no secret, so, hmmmmm...

Not to put too fine a point on it- but a "secret war" between two superpowers in the 80's was pretty darn political already. Throw in a big emphasis on energy/power and where it comes from- and you've got Reaganist America in a nutshell. Transformers weren't political- as much as they were a product of the politics and fears at the time.

The movie still won't win any points in my book by throwing out a handful of treacle about conservation though. Not from a two hour toy commercial.

First-Aid wrote:It is interesting. I have to agree about Megs turning into a gun...he can't control his own power in that mode. how many cartoon eps and comics did his power get turned against the troops he commanded? Beast Wars was really the first Series where Megatron was able to use and control his own power rather than relying on someone else.
I didn't see any reference to an alt mode...I have to admit they are doing a hell of job of keeping his altmode secret from the public...and his Earth altmode secret from us.

Shockwave could do it so why not Megs?

Fussion wrote:

First-Aid wrote:It is interesting. I have to agree about Megs turning into a gun...he can't control his own power in that mode. how many cartoon eps and comics did his power get turned against the troops he commanded? Beast Wars was really the first Series where Megatron was able to use and control his own power rather than relying on someone else.
I didn't see any reference to an alt mode...I have to admit they are doing a hell of job of keeping his altmode secret from the public...and his Earth altmode secret from us.

Shockwave could do it so why not Megs?

Good question. In the Marvel comics, Megatron even stated that Shockwave had interstellar flight capabilities in gun mode, which Megatron did not.

On topic, seeing them as knights is not too far of a stretch. I can relate many good versus evil battles to tales of knights. It's a common literary parallel. One might even say, obvious.

Maybe i'm wishing here but perhaps Megatron will look more like Galvatron, like some secret mobile artillery platform? Anything's possible I suppose...

Transformers as Knights......nice connection. As for the political side of things, I hope they don't get TOO involved to make Megatron become someone like Hitler or Stalin, even for him that would be a new low.

Wasn't there something posted after one of the conventions of someone slipping about Megs being a B2?

Leonardo wrote:

Fussion wrote:

First-Aid wrote:It is interesting. I have to agree about Megs turning into a gun...he can't control his own power in that mode. how many cartoon eps and comics did his power get turned against the troops he commanded? Beast Wars was really the first Series where Megatron was able to use and control his own power rather than relying on someone else.
I didn't see any reference to an alt mode...I have to admit they are doing a hell of job of keeping his altmode secret from the public...and his Earth altmode secret from us.

Shockwave could do it so why not Megs?

Good question. In the Marvel comics, Megatron even stated that Shockwave had interstellar flight capabilities in gun mode, which Megatron did not.

On topic, seeing them as knights is not too far of a stretch. I can relate many good versus evil battles to tales of knights. It's a common literary parallel. One might even say, obvious.

The difference is the medium. It works in a comic book, but for a movie for the masses (of which many of whom have never heard of Transformers) it doesn't. Megatron is suppose to be a real villain; said villain having an alt-mode that requires someone to grasp him and pull the trigger probably would confuse half of the theater audience.

By the way, First-Aid, I disagree about BW Megatron. After Unicron reformatted Megatron into Galvatron, his alt-mode didn't have to rely on someone else to pull a trigger.

the only thansformers that i view as knights are probaly Armada Starscream and Dinobot

What's wrong with Megatron being swung around and aimed at targets? It worked in the G1 show. He was a gun for goodness sake! They should have just said that it was the stupid US gun laws that forced this change. State the obvious fools!

98 days feels like forever! Ugh.

good article. pleasent suprise while i was eating breakfast

General Magnus wrote:the only thansformers that i view as knights are probaly Armada Starscream and Dinobot

BW Silverbolt was the knight; Dinobot is a Viking (just watch my dedication to him in my sig).

The article simply states:

"The writers don't want to reveal yet what machine Megatron becomes."

REMEMBER: This is an article for regular people, not so much the fans. The alt mode being implied here IS the cybertronian space ship. At least, that's my theory

I also hate that whole "That would be the equivalent of Darth Vader turning into his own lightsaber and someone else swinging him around."

I always thought that in gun mode, Megatron's blasts were more powerful since most of his robotic functions had shut down (due to the simplicity of the gun compared to a mobile, robot) and diverted it's power to the canon.

Ransom wrote:

First-Aid wrote:The difference is the medium. It works in a comic book, but for a movie for the masses (of which many of whom have never heard of Transformers) it doesn't. Megatron is suppose to be a real villain; said villain having an alt-mode that requires someone to grasp him and pull the trigger probably would confuse half of the theater audience.

By the way, First-Aid, I disagree about BW Megatron. After Unicron reformatted Megatron into Galvatron, his alt-mode didn't have to rely on someone else to pull a trigger.

That's interesting. I never saw it that way. I always thought they made the change because they felt Megatron needed an update and look more menacing in both modes and of course, the gun laws that would get in the way of toy sales.

Predaprince wrote:BW Silverbolt was the knight; Dinobot is a Viking (just watch my dedication to him in my sig).

I always saw Dinobot as more of a samurai. Not quite a full blown one, but more along the lines of a samurai than that of a viking.

Gierling wrote:The references to politics concern me.

Wow. You put that so much more politely than I want to. (Bite your fingers, 'Stachey, bite 'em hard...)

I think all I can say with any modicum of courtesy is that this talk of "dark political parallels" is the first thing I've seen that makes me seriously- and I mean seriously- consider not seeing the film.

ZenithF0RTE wrote:[...] and of course, the gun laws that would get in the way of toy sales.

I had not considered that aspect.

SeekerInAFakeMoustache wrote:I think all I can say with any modicum of courtesy is that this talk of "dark political parallels" is the first thing I've seen that makes me seriously- and I mean seriously- consider not seeing the film.

I agree. Of course people are going to draw parallels to what is occurring in the world - especially media because it's irresistable for them - but the audience should be allowed to take whatever they want from the movie, whether that be a new perspective on contemporary events or simply be entertained for the night. The USA Today article really is decent in that respect because it was only one sentence - unlike a different media article almost completely given over to linking Transformers to environmentalism and Al Gore. But I understand your frustration.

Now please hide your claws and fangs.

I agree , I never thought of Transformers as knights, but I can see how they could be thought of that way. As for any political ideas, I wish they'd leave that out. I want to be entertained , not preached to. Let's just have a movie we can enjoy.

Folks....It's a war between two different factions with weapons powerful enough to destroy city blocks....How could they not connect it to politics of some sort? Wars are political by nature.

Nightwatcher wrote:Folks....It's a war between two different factions with weapons powerful enough to destroy city blocks....How could they not connect it to politics of some sort? Wars are political by nature.

As has been said, political parallels are going to be drawn either way. What people are concerned about is the way a lot of modern media seems to be passing judgement on real world events, and dressing it up as drama.
Many people, myself included are completely turned off of any story that seems to be written with some subversive intention.

I don't mind alternative points of view being expressed through drama, but so many writers just want to kick the audience in the head with it over and over again, whilst dressing it up as something else, and expecting people to be stupid enough to buy into it without realising what the wrtier is doing nowadays. I watch movies for the purpose of escapism, it's genuinely ruined for me the moment someone begins lecturing about climate change/iraq/corporate america/bush/etc, dressed up as some transparently obvious metaphor.

i forgot where this was said, but another reason megatron wont be turning into a gun is that they wanted all the transformers to be proportioned to their alt mode. you cant have a 30 foot robot transform into something 1/5 of its size. unless he would be a giant cannon, that wouldnt really work in a movie.

SoooTrypticon wrote:Not to put too fine a point on it- but a "secret war" between two superpowers in the 80's was pretty darn political already. Throw in a big emphasis on energy/power and where it comes from- and you've got Reaganist America in a nutshell. Transformers weren't political- as much as they were a product of the politics and fears at the time.

The movie still won't win any points in my book by throwing out a handful of treacle about conservation though. Not from a two hour toy commercial.

Hey SOO tryp how you been

good thing i checked the news here before
posting

SoooTrypticon wrote:Not to put too fine a point on it- but a "secret war" between two superpowers in the 80's was pretty darn political already. Throw in a big emphasis on energy/power and where it comes from- and you've got Reaganist America in a nutshell. Transformers weren't political- as much as they were a product of the politics and fears at the time.

The movie still won't win any points in my book by throwing out a handful of treacle about conservation though. Not from a two hour toy commercial.

Oh its a pretty open secret that the TV Show had some parallels, (What with the big giant red white and blue robot who spouted off about freedom being the right of all sentient beings facing up against the tyrannical dictator painted in baroque Stalinist grey). The thing is those were implicit influences, not explicit ones.

Granted it was a necessary evil to counterbalance the insidious pro-communist message children were getting from Smurfs, the pro-homosexual agenda messages in He-man and the pro hallucigen use message of Visionaries but I digress. Even if the counter-counterculture stance of Transformers was part of its charm, it really never bashed you over the head with it. I think the closest I've ever seen to a tacit acknowledgment of it was Peter Cullen admitting that he took some of Primes paternalism from Ronald Reagan in an old interview, but thats miles apart.

Frankly as long as the movie can avoid explicitly equating republicans with Decepticons like the comic book has I'll be fine.

I think that when you talk about adding in a "political message," it doesn't necessarily mean something bad. For example: take Battlestar Galactica. At its heart, its a metaphor for the war in Iraq, plain and simple. But it's also good entertainment because it's done right.

Tacking on a "popular" warm-fuzzy political message just to be "hip" (such as having everyone feel bad for suspecting a Middle Eastern person is a terrorist such as Flightplan or making obvious jokes about illegal immigrants wanting to come to the United States in Over the Hedge) makes me ill.

There's a fine line between art and after-school preaching. I seriously doubt to see intelligent metaphorical comparisons in an action flick such as this.

To Ransom:

Sorry I didn't quote you properly in my earlier post. Still trying to figure out how the quotting system works here.

I know that in popular culture [music ,movies, tv, etc.] references are often made to politics and social issues, but it does make art less entertaining when too much emphasis is placed on politics. I just don't want to see this happen in the Transformers movie. I do agree, however, that in a war between two opposing factions of robots, there will be a clash of ideologies, but I hope there won't be too much pontificating about ideology.

What with the big giant red white and blue robot who spouted off about freedom being the right of all sentient beings facing up against the tyrannical dictator painted in baroque Stalinist grey

Since when was "Stalinist grey" a color?

If Megatron was red, the statement may hold value, but he is light grey, which doesn't seem to have any hidden political attributes to it.

Megatron can hardly be considered a tyrannical dictator- his right to rule is frequently challenged from within, occasionally with (if only brief) success. In contrast, the Autobots unquestioningly obey Prime and his will.

zedman wrote:What's wrong with Megatron being swung around and aimed at targets? It worked in the G1 show. He was a gun for goodness sake! They should have just said that it was the stupid US gun laws that forced this change. State the obvious fools!

If it was gun laws that affected our thinking, we would say so.

Predaprince wrote:Optimus = King Arthur?

I thought Optimus = John Wayne.

But, I can see that they are comparing him to King Arthur through both of their leadership.

You're right. Optimus is also John Wayne. We're referring more to his design and his general nobility.

flashmech wrote:I agree , I never thought of Transformers as knights, but I can see how they could be thought of that way. As for any political ideas, I wish they'd leave that out. I want to be entertained , not preached to. Let's just have a movie we can enjoy.

Promise there is no preaching.

krisko wrote:i forgot where this was said, but another reason megatron wont be turning into a gun is that they wanted all the transformers to be proportioned to their alt mode. you cant have a 30 foot robot transform into something 1/5 of its size. unless he would be a giant cannon, that wouldnt really work in a movie.

Correct. We really did not want to rely on mass shifting.

Roberto Orci wrote:

krisko wrote:i forgot where this was said, but another reason megatron wont be turning into a gun is that they wanted all the transformers to be proportioned to their alt mode. you cant have a 30 foot robot transform into something 1/5 of its size. unless he would be a giant cannon, that wouldnt really work in a movie.

Correct. We really did not want to rely on mass shifting.

A good thing, too!

Roberto Orci wrote:

flashmech wrote:I agree , I never thought of Transformers as knights, but I can see how they could be thought of that way. As for any political ideas, I wish they'd leave that out. I want to be entertained , not preached to. Let's just have a movie we can enjoy.

Promise there is no preaching.

Thank you. Now that I'm a little calmer, perhaps I can explain myself without resorting to caps and excessive punctuation (in other words, Ransom, the claws're away ).

I've got no problem if an author believes in what he's writing. In fact, if he doesn't, the story can come off as a little passionless. The problem comes when- as I must admit I see far too often- the idea isn't to prove a theme through plot and character development, but Emperor's-New-Clothes the audience by flat-out stating an editorial point and then using the story to subtly (or not-so-subtly) hint all the smart viewers/readers/players will agree with it. Even if I do agree, I feel insulted, like I'm not trusted to figure things out for myself.

I've got no reason to assume the TF film is going to do that. I would just be very disappointed if it did.

I can see how the Autobots could be called knights, so I guess their leader would be Arthur. They come to Earth to protect us from their problem, thats honorable.

With the impression I'm getting of Megatron, I don't think he would take a new alt unless it would serve to fake his death. He's fast, powerful and fearless. He doesn't hide. So they're probably referring to his Space/Jet mode.

Roberto Orci wrote:

flashmech wrote:I agree , I never thought of Transformers as knights, but I can see how they could be thought of that way. As for any political ideas, I wish they'd leave that out. I want to be entertained , not preached to. Let's just have a movie we can enjoy.

Promise there is no preaching.

Thank you.

The reason why I'm anxious is that with the level of vitriol in Politics people need a refuge, and when Politics gets involved in entertainment people have nowhere to turn.

So thanks for ensuring that a movie can just stay an ordinary fun excursion.

double post