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SoooTrypticon wrote:Not to put too fine a point on it- but a "secret war" between two superpowers in the 80's was pretty darn political already. Throw in a big emphasis on energy/power and where it comes from- and you've got Reaganist America in a nutshell. Transformers weren't political- as much as they were a product of the politics and fears at the time.

The movie still won't win any points in my book by throwing out a handful of treacle about conservation though. Not from a two hour toy commercial.

Oh its a pretty open secret that the TV Show had some parallels, (What with the big giant red white and blue robot who spouted off about freedom being the right of all sentient beings facing up against the tyrannical dictator painted in baroque Stalinist grey). The thing is those were implicit influences, not explicit ones.

Granted it was a necessary evil to counterbalance the insidious pro-communist message children were getting from Smurfs, the pro-homosexual agenda messages in He-man and the pro hallucigen use message of Visionaries but I digress. Even if the counter-counterculture stance of Transformers was part of its charm, it really never bashed you over the head with it. I think the closest I've ever seen to a tacit acknowledgment of it was Peter Cullen admitting that he took some of Primes paternalism from Ronald Reagan in an old interview, but thats miles apart.

Frankly as long as the movie can avoid explicitly equating republicans with Decepticons like the comic book has I'll be fine.

I think that when you talk about adding in a "political message," it doesn't necessarily mean something bad. For example: take Battlestar Galactica. At its heart, its a metaphor for the war in Iraq, plain and simple. But it's also good entertainment because it's done right.

Tacking on a "popular" warm-fuzzy political message just to be "hip" (such as having everyone feel bad for suspecting a Middle Eastern person is a terrorist such as Flightplan or making obvious jokes about illegal immigrants wanting to come to the United States in Over the Hedge) makes me ill.

There's a fine line between art and after-school preaching. I seriously doubt to see intelligent metaphorical comparisons in an action flick such as this.

To Ransom:

Sorry I didn't quote you properly in my earlier post. Still trying to figure out how the quotting system works here.

I know that in popular culture [music ,movies, tv, etc.] references are often made to politics and social issues, but it does make art less entertaining when too much emphasis is placed on politics. I just don't want to see this happen in the Transformers movie. I do agree, however, that in a war between two opposing factions of robots, there will be a clash of ideologies, but I hope there won't be too much pontificating about ideology.

What with the big giant red white and blue robot who spouted off about freedom being the right of all sentient beings facing up against the tyrannical dictator painted in baroque Stalinist grey

Since when was "Stalinist grey" a color?

If Megatron was red, the statement may hold value, but he is light grey, which doesn't seem to have any hidden political attributes to it.

Megatron can hardly be considered a tyrannical dictator- his right to rule is frequently challenged from within, occasionally with (if only brief) success. In contrast, the Autobots unquestioningly obey Prime and his will.

zedman wrote:What's wrong with Megatron being swung around and aimed at targets? It worked in the G1 show. He was a gun for goodness sake! They should have just said that it was the stupid US gun laws that forced this change. State the obvious fools!

If it was gun laws that affected our thinking, we would say so.

Predaprince wrote:Optimus = King Arthur?

I thought Optimus = John Wayne.

But, I can see that they are comparing him to King Arthur through both of their leadership.

You're right. Optimus is also John Wayne. We're referring more to his design and his general nobility.

flashmech wrote:I agree , I never thought of Transformers as knights, but I can see how they could be thought of that way. As for any political ideas, I wish they'd leave that out. I want to be entertained , not preached to. Let's just have a movie we can enjoy.

Promise there is no preaching.

krisko wrote:i forgot where this was said, but another reason megatron wont be turning into a gun is that they wanted all the transformers to be proportioned to their alt mode. you cant have a 30 foot robot transform into something 1/5 of its size. unless he would be a giant cannon, that wouldnt really work in a movie.

Correct. We really did not want to rely on mass shifting.

Roberto Orci wrote:

krisko wrote:i forgot where this was said, but another reason megatron wont be turning into a gun is that they wanted all the transformers to be proportioned to their alt mode. you cant have a 30 foot robot transform into something 1/5 of its size. unless he would be a giant cannon, that wouldnt really work in a movie.

Correct. We really did not want to rely on mass shifting.

A good thing, too!

Roberto Orci wrote:

flashmech wrote:I agree , I never thought of Transformers as knights, but I can see how they could be thought of that way. As for any political ideas, I wish they'd leave that out. I want to be entertained , not preached to. Let's just have a movie we can enjoy.

Promise there is no preaching.

Thank you. Now that I'm a little calmer, perhaps I can explain myself without resorting to caps and excessive punctuation (in other words, Ransom, the claws're away ).

I've got no problem if an author believes in what he's writing. In fact, if he doesn't, the story can come off as a little passionless. The problem comes when- as I must admit I see far too often- the idea isn't to prove a theme through plot and character development, but Emperor's-New-Clothes the audience by flat-out stating an editorial point and then using the story to subtly (or not-so-subtly) hint all the smart viewers/readers/players will agree with it. Even if I do agree, I feel insulted, like I'm not trusted to figure things out for myself.

I've got no reason to assume the TF film is going to do that. I would just be very disappointed if it did.

I can see how the Autobots could be called knights, so I guess their leader would be Arthur. They come to Earth to protect us from their problem, thats honorable.

With the impression I'm getting of Megatron, I don't think he would take a new alt unless it would serve to fake his death. He's fast, powerful and fearless. He doesn't hide. So they're probably referring to his Space/Jet mode.

Roberto Orci wrote:

flashmech wrote:I agree , I never thought of Transformers as knights, but I can see how they could be thought of that way. As for any political ideas, I wish they'd leave that out. I want to be entertained , not preached to. Let's just have a movie we can enjoy.

Promise there is no preaching.

Thank you.

The reason why I'm anxious is that with the level of vitriol in Politics people need a refuge, and when Politics gets involved in entertainment people have nowhere to turn.

So thanks for ensuring that a movie can just stay an ordinary fun excursion.

double post