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Emerje wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Emerje wrote:

ScottyP wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Update on the Nacelle mold that... may not actually be mold:

https://twitter.com/damnyouwillis/status/1697973275198902778

It's not mold! It's release fluid they use to get the plastic out of the metal tooling.

I've had toys arrive with that stuff on them and that is not at all what the mold release stuff looks like, or at least what it used to. Last time I had that happen with a Hasbro product was the TRU MP Grimlock reissue. That stuff had the consistency and feel of petroleum jelly and was more or less clear.

Yeah, it was always my understanding that mold release for injection molds is oily and very thin, anything thick could effect the molding.

I can't believe one random person on Twitter saying it's mold release with no evidence is enough to get people to make a 180 on the issue.

Emerje

To be fair, David Willis isn't some random person.

He's never worked in a plastics factory has he? I'm going to guess he's no more an authority on this than any of us.

Emerje

I think it is absolutely fair to say that a long-time editor and contributor to the TFWiki is more knowledgeable about toy production than internet randos. How many pages on the wiki cover the specifics of toy production? In fact, I bet nearly everything that this community knows about that comes straight from the wiki!

It's fair to want official confirmation, and everyone has different tolerances for safety, but there's more information to suggest this is paranoia than a public health risk at this point.

First-Aid wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:And let's face it. Many of the complaints about the Animated Stunticons not being a combiner came from people who wanted a new Classics-style Menasor and didn't really care about the Animated universe or its aesthetic. They just wanted a modern G1-ish Menasor and were mad that BotCon 2011 wasn't gonna give them one (as if they would have ever happened in 2011 regardless).

This is what bugs me about Geewunners. They are never, EVER happy. Unless it's exactly the same g1 figures EVERY SINGLE DAMN TIME, they whine, wail, gnash teeth, and cry until the streets are flowing with saliva and tears. Each "new" line (and I have to put new because at this point HasTak has no damned originality and can't create but Geewun redux) the Geewunners complain that it's not, you know, G1 despite it still essentially being g1. You know what current toys have that G1 toys never had? Knees and elbows. Seriously they need to quit their crying and just accept that we aren't in G1 anymore and either move on or sulk and hide in a corner and STFU.


(panting as annoyed rage subsides)

As a G1 fan, eff that 'Geewunner' BS, I'm very happy with the current direction of things in general with Transformers. We're getting the staple guys drib drabbed out, deep cuts, and even widening the tent.

I think you just talk to the wrong people.

It also didn't help that those last few years of Fun Pub-era BotCon also had people whining that Fun Pub should cater specifically to the CHUG collectors and only fill in the gaps that Hasbro hadn't yet, instead of trying new things and experimenting with different themes like they did every year.

Like, I remember someone on this forum arguing and insisting in those years that Fun Pub should have given their attention to a new Sunstreaker instead of all the deep cuts and more obscure stuff that they were known to dabble with, when the Universe 2008 Sunstreaker was still perfectly serviceable at the time.

I ADORE Legacy because they give oddballs that never got an official toy nor any updates since their original releases a chance to shine.

On your left, we have a debate on Willis being reliable. And on your right, we have a discussion on Geewunners being mad over the Animated Stunticons.

Quantum Surge wrote:On your left, we have a debate on Willis being reliable. And on your right, we have a discussion on Geewunners being mad over the Animated Stunticons.

Quantum Surge wrote:On your left, we have a debate on Willis being reliable. And on your right, we have a discussion on Geewunners being mad over the Animated Stunticons.

Just another day in the Transformers fandom.

sol magnus wrote:

First-Aid wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:And let's face it. Many of the complaints about the Animated Stunticons not being a combiner came from people who wanted a new Classics-style Menasor and didn't really care about the Animated universe or its aesthetic. They just wanted a modern G1-ish Menasor and were mad that BotCon 2011 wasn't gonna give them one (as if they would have ever happened in 2011 regardless).

This is what bugs me about Geewunners. They are never, EVER happy. Unless it's exactly the same g1 figures EVERY SINGLE DAMN TIME, they whine, wail, gnash teeth, and cry until the streets are flowing with saliva and tears. Each "new" line (and I have to put new because at this point HasTak has no damned originality and can't create but Geewun redux) the Geewunners complain that it's not, you know, G1 despite it still essentially being g1. You know what current toys have that G1 toys never had? Knees and elbows. Seriously they need to quit their crying and just accept that we aren't in G1 anymore and either move on or sulk and hide in a corner and STFU.


(panting as annoyed rage subsides)

As a G1 fan, eff that 'Geewunner' BS, I'm very happy with the current direction of things in general with Transformers. We're getting the staple guys drib drabbed out, deep cuts, and even widening the tent.

I think you just talk to the wrong people.

Dude, of course you don't mind it if you're a geewunner. But if you like animated, prime, or bayverse, then really there's barely anything at all, really nothing if you like animated or prime.

Rtron wrote:

sol magnus wrote:

First-Aid wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:And let's face it. Many of the complaints about the Animated Stunticons not being a combiner came from people who wanted a new Classics-style Menasor and didn't really care about the Animated universe or its aesthetic. They just wanted a modern G1-ish Menasor and were mad that BotCon 2011 wasn't gonna give them one (as if they would have ever happened in 2011 regardless).

This is what bugs me about Geewunners. They are never, EVER happy. Unless it's exactly the same g1 figures EVERY SINGLE DAMN TIME, they whine, wail, gnash teeth, and cry until the streets are flowing with saliva and tears. Each "new" line (and I have to put new because at this point HasTak has no damned originality and can't create but Geewun redux) the Geewunners complain that it's not, you know, G1 despite it still essentially being g1. You know what current toys have that G1 toys never had? Knees and elbows. Seriously they need to quit their crying and just accept that we aren't in G1 anymore and either move on or sulk and hide in a corner and STFU.


(panting as annoyed rage subsides)

As a G1 fan, eff that 'Geewunner' BS, I'm very happy with the current direction of things in general with Transformers. We're getting the staple guys drib drabbed out, deep cuts, and even widening the tent.

I think you just talk to the wrong people.

Dude, of course you don't mind it if you're a geewunner. But if you like animated, prime, or bayverse, then really there's barely anything at all, really nothing if you like animated or prime.

Again, 'Geewunner' is a BS term. If you want somebody to have any respect for the parts of the property YOU enjoy, maybe don't label everyone who enjoys the original iteration of the property as some kind of gatekeeper, because I'm not that.

And how is it "Bayverse" has nothing to love, even if I'm to buy animated and prime? You've got RotB AND still Studio Series. I don't pay attention to SS all that much, but it seems like they're doing new releases(?)

Personally, I have figures from both in their original incarnations as well as G1-ified versions, which I admit can be hit and miss, but you left out Unicron trilogy stuff pretty conspicuously.

Rtron wrote:

sol magnus wrote:

First-Aid wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:And let's face it. Many of the complaints about the Animated Stunticons not being a combiner came from people who wanted a new Classics-style Menasor and didn't really care about the Animated universe or its aesthetic. They just wanted a modern G1-ish Menasor and were mad that BotCon 2011 wasn't gonna give them one (as if they would have ever happened in 2011 regardless).

This is what bugs me about Geewunners. They are never, EVER happy. Unless it's exactly the same g1 figures EVERY SINGLE DAMN TIME, they whine, wail, gnash teeth, and cry until the streets are flowing with saliva and tears. Each "new" line (and I have to put new because at this point HasTak has no damned originality and can't create but Geewun redux) the Geewunners complain that it's not, you know, G1 despite it still essentially being g1. You know what current toys have that G1 toys never had? Knees and elbows. Seriously they need to quit their crying and just accept that we aren't in G1 anymore and either move on or sulk and hide in a corner and STFU.


(panting as annoyed rage subsides)

As a G1 fan, eff that 'Geewunner' BS, I'm very happy with the current direction of things in general with Transformers. We're getting the staple guys drib drabbed out, deep cuts, and even widening the tent.

I think you just talk to the wrong people.

Dude, of course you don't mind it if you're a geewunner. But if you like animated, prime, or bayverse, then really there's barely anything at all, really nothing if you like animated or prime.

I think you misread what he wrote. He said "eff that 'Geewunner' BS", meaning he's against the Geewunner mentality. He's a G1 fan, but not a Geewunner.

Sabrblade wrote:

Rtron wrote:

sol magnus wrote:

First-Aid wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:And let's face it. Many of the complaints about the Animated Stunticons not being a combiner came from people who wanted a new Classics-style Menasor and didn't really care about the Animated universe or its aesthetic. They just wanted a modern G1-ish Menasor and were mad that BotCon 2011 wasn't gonna give them one (as if they would have ever happened in 2011 regardless).

This is what bugs me about Geewunners. They are never, EVER happy. Unless it's exactly the same g1 figures EVERY SINGLE DAMN TIME, they whine, wail, gnash teeth, and cry until the streets are flowing with saliva and tears. Each "new" line (and I have to put new because at this point HasTak has no damned originality and can't create but Geewun redux) the Geewunners complain that it's not, you know, G1 despite it still essentially being g1. You know what current toys have that G1 toys never had? Knees and elbows. Seriously they need to quit their crying and just accept that we aren't in G1 anymore and either move on or sulk and hide in a corner and STFU.


(panting as annoyed rage subsides)

As a G1 fan, eff that 'Geewunner' BS, I'm very happy with the current direction of things in general with Transformers. We're getting the staple guys drib drabbed out, deep cuts, and even widening the tent.

I think you just talk to the wrong people.

Dude, of course you don't mind it if you're a geewunner. But if you like animated, prime, or bayverse, then really there's barely anything at all, really nothing if you like animated or prime.

I think you misread what he wrote. He said "eff that 'Geewunner' BS", meaning he's against the Geewunner mentality. He's a G1 fan, but not a Geewunner.

Ok, you're right. I'm sorry Sol Magnus, I misread you. Things are pretty bad and I misdirected my frustration. I still stand by the fact that those properties are not being handled properly, but I was wrong to criticize you.

Sabrblade wrote:

Rtron wrote:

sol magnus wrote:

First-Aid wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:And let's face it. Many of the complaints about the Animated Stunticons not being a combiner came from people who wanted a new Classics-style Menasor and didn't really care about the Animated universe or its aesthetic. They just wanted a modern G1-ish Menasor and were mad that BotCon 2011 wasn't gonna give them one (as if they would have ever happened in 2011 regardless).

This is what bugs me about Geewunners. They are never, EVER happy. Unless it's exactly the same g1 figures EVERY SINGLE DAMN TIME, they whine, wail, gnash teeth, and cry until the streets are flowing with saliva and tears. Each "new" line (and I have to put new because at this point HasTak has no damned originality and can't create but Geewun redux) the Geewunners complain that it's not, you know, G1 despite it still essentially being g1. You know what current toys have that G1 toys never had? Knees and elbows. Seriously they need to quit their crying and just accept that we aren't in G1 anymore and either move on or sulk and hide in a corner and STFU.


(panting as annoyed rage subsides)

As a G1 fan, eff that 'Geewunner' BS, I'm very happy with the current direction of things in general with Transformers. We're getting the staple guys drib drabbed out, deep cuts, and even widening the tent.

I think you just talk to the wrong people.

Dude, of course you don't mind it if you're a geewunner. But if you like animated, prime, or bayverse, then really there's barely anything at all, really nothing if you like animated or prime.

I think you misread what he wrote. He said "eff that 'Geewunner' BS", meaning he's against the Geewunner mentality. He's a G1 fan, but not a Geewunner.

I'm not going to insist that factionalism doesn't exist, because I know it does and I've seen it. But I frankly see far more anti-Geewunner than pro-Geewunner posts, and I think any kind of purists are a small minority. Most people are "I like this the most, but I also like X, and I don't like Y." So there's still plenty of stuff to argue about, but most arguments aren't "this is always bad and you're wrong."

At least, in my experience. If someone says they hate everything about X in a confrontational way, then I mute them. Unless they hate everything about TransTech, because that's obviously objectively correct.

Rtron wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Rtron wrote:

sol magnus wrote:

First-Aid wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:And let's face it. Many of the complaints about the Animated Stunticons not being a combiner came from people who wanted a new Classics-style Menasor and didn't really care about the Animated universe or its aesthetic. They just wanted a modern G1-ish Menasor and were mad that BotCon 2011 wasn't gonna give them one (as if they would have ever happened in 2011 regardless).

This is what bugs me about Geewunners. They are never, EVER happy. Unless it's exactly the same g1 figures EVERY SINGLE DAMN TIME, they whine, wail, gnash teeth, and cry until the streets are flowing with saliva and tears. Each "new" line (and I have to put new because at this point HasTak has no damned originality and can't create but Geewun redux) the Geewunners complain that it's not, you know, G1 despite it still essentially being g1. You know what current toys have that G1 toys never had? Knees and elbows. Seriously they need to quit their crying and just accept that we aren't in G1 anymore and either move on or sulk and hide in a corner and STFU.


(panting as annoyed rage subsides)

As a G1 fan, eff that 'Geewunner' BS, I'm very happy with the current direction of things in general with Transformers. We're getting the staple guys drib drabbed out, deep cuts, and even widening the tent.

I think you just talk to the wrong people.

Dude, of course you don't mind it if you're a geewunner. But if you like animated, prime, or bayverse, then really there's barely anything at all, really nothing if you like animated or prime.

I think you misread what he wrote. He said "eff that 'Geewunner' BS", meaning he's against the Geewunner mentality. He's a G1 fan, but not a Geewunner.

Ok, you're right. I'm sorry Sol Magnus, I misread you. Things are pretty bad in other non-TF areas and I misdirected my frustration. I still stand by the fact that those properties are not being handled properly, but I was wrong to criticize you. I left out Unicron Trilogy because that's something that they are actually doing properly... probably because it's already pretty in line with the G1 aesthetic.

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Rtron wrote:

sol magnus wrote:

First-Aid wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:And let's face it. Many of the complaints about the Animated Stunticons not being a combiner came from people who wanted a new Classics-style Menasor and didn't really care about the Animated universe or its aesthetic. They just wanted a modern G1-ish Menasor and were mad that BotCon 2011 wasn't gonna give them one (as if they would have ever happened in 2011 regardless).

This is what bugs me about Geewunners. They are never, EVER happy. Unless it's exactly the same g1 figures EVERY SINGLE DAMN TIME, they whine, wail, gnash teeth, and cry until the streets are flowing with saliva and tears. Each "new" line (and I have to put new because at this point HasTak has no damned originality and can't create but Geewun redux) the Geewunners complain that it's not, you know, G1 despite it still essentially being g1. You know what current toys have that G1 toys never had? Knees and elbows. Seriously they need to quit their crying and just accept that we aren't in G1 anymore and either move on or sulk and hide in a corner and STFU.


(panting as annoyed rage subsides)

As a G1 fan, eff that 'Geewunner' BS, I'm very happy with the current direction of things in general with Transformers. We're getting the staple guys drib drabbed out, deep cuts, and even widening the tent.

I think you just talk to the wrong people.

Dude, of course you don't mind it if you're a geewunner. But if you like animated, prime, or bayverse, then really there's barely anything at all, really nothing if you like animated or prime.

I think you misread what he wrote. He said "eff that 'Geewunner' BS", meaning he's against the Geewunner mentality. He's a G1 fan, but not a Geewunner.

I'm not going to insist that factionalism doesn't exist, because I know it does and I've seen it. But I frankly see far more anti-Geewunner than pro-Geewunner posts, and I think any kind of purists are a small minority. Most people are "I like this the most, but I also like X, and I don't like Y." So there's still plenty of stuff to argue about, but most arguments aren't "this is always bad and you're wrong."

At least, in my experience. If someone says they hate everything about X in a confrontational way, then I mute them. Unless they hate everything about TransTech, because that's obviously objectively correct.

I personally like G1 as an aesthetic on its own, my problem is that clearly Hasbro is trying to make it the only Transformers aesthetic, when until about 2015 Transformers was an eclectic brand with a little something for everyone, that was constantly reinventing itself and presenting new looks and possibilities for the Transformers.

Rtron wrote:I personally like G1 as an aesthetic on its own, my problem is that clearly Hasbro is trying to make it the only Transformers aesthetic, when until about 2015 Transformers was an eclectic brand with a little something for everyone, that was constantly reinventing itself and presenting new looks and possibilities for the Transformers.

The irony of this is, Hasbro is clearly allowing Beast Wars to keep its aesthetic in Legacy, when it's clearly a very distinct look from the G1 aesthetic that G2, RID 2001, and the Unicron Trilogy all held onto. Prime and Animated get G1-ified, but Beast Wars does not, when its aesthetic is based less on G1 and more on The Guyver (true story).

Can you guys imagine how outraged people would have been if the Legacy toys of Tarantulas and Inferno had had the blocky mechanical machine aesthetic of the G1 Dinobots/Insecticons/Predacons/etc. instead of the rounded, organic-textured look that they received?

I think my only real nitpick is the desire to make things slavishly toon-accurate, but that's only because I'm a toy-accurate nutter. Even then I still enjoy the toon aesthetic and I'm sure fans are happy having plastic representations that more better resemble the on-screen models than previous attempts. (Plus I personally get a little giddy seeing small toy-based details chucked in to fill what would otherwise be bland panels!)

That being said...would be nice if they kept focusing on new things, giving us toys of characters that have long gone without an update, and catered some more to the other universes out there too.

Sabrblade wrote:

Rtron wrote:I personally like G1 as an aesthetic on its own, my problem is that clearly Hasbro is trying to make it the only Transformers aesthetic, when until about 2015 Transformers was an eclectic brand with a little something for everyone, that was constantly reinventing itself and presenting new looks and possibilities for the Transformers.

The irony of this is, Hasbro is clearly allowing Beast Wars to keep its aesthetic in Legacy, when it's clearly a very distinct look from the G1 aesthetic that G2, RID 2001, and the Unicron Trilogy all held onto. Prime and Animated get G1-ified, but Beast Wars does not, when its aesthetic is based less on G1 and more on The Guyver (true story).

Can you guys imagine how outraged people would have been if the Legacy toys of Tarantulas and Inferno had had the blocky mechanical machine aesthetic of the G1 Dinobots/Insecticons/Predacons/etc. instead of the rounded, organic-textured look that they received?

I suspect there must be some marketing rule that dictates they only respect the aesthetics for stuff where there are 30+ years old childhood fans. So, at this point in time, Armada fits that, because someone who watcehd that show as a 10 year old would now be in their thirties, but Animated does not. Or something like that? I don't know, it makes no sense to me.

Okay but I'd honestly love to see a take on the Beastie Bots being done in the chunky, 80's mecha style of the G1 bots...
Would it probably upset fans? Probably, can't really deny that, but I would find it very fascinating. Maybe that could've been their "Cybertronian" counterparts if HasTak needed a marketing gimmick to excuse why chunky bugs and cheetahs turned into organic ones. Shrug.

Rtron wrote:I personally like G1 as an aesthetic on its own, my problem is that clearly Hasbro is trying to make it the only Transformers aesthetic, when until about 2015 Transformers was an eclectic brand with a little something for everyone, that was constantly reinventing itself and presenting new looks and possibilities for the Transformers.

This is simply untrue. You could certainly make a claim that Generations exclusive of Studio Series as a toyline umbrella is overly devoted to G1 and the toons, but even then you need exceptions like Beast Wars and Armada. Cyberverse is G1-ish, but no more so than Animated was.

On the other end of the spectrum, BotBots and Rescue Bots are arguably dead brands now, but the former postdates 2015, and the latter has continued past that point in multiple ways. I would be shocked if Hasbro isn't looking for the next weird brand spin-off even now. You can also compare TF to other legacy and evergreen properties like He-Man and GI Joe, where there is much less narrative and product innovation. Transformers is positively dynamic in contrast to those.

SpaceEagle wrote:Okay but I'd honestly love to see a take on the Beastie Bots being done in the chunky, 80's mecha style of the G1 bots...
Would it probably upset fans? Probably, can't really deny that, but I would find it very fascinating. Maybe that could've been their "Cybertronian" counterparts if HasTak needed a marketing gimmick to excuse why chunky bugs and cheetahs turned into organic ones. Shrug.

I love Burcham's designs for Cybertronian Beasties in the last IDW comic with those characters. They weren't blocky and overly G1, but sleek and angular and something else entirely.

AcademyofDrX wrote:

SpaceEagle wrote:Okay but I'd honestly love to see a take on the Beastie Bots being done in the chunky, 80's mecha style of the G1 bots...
Would it probably upset fans? Probably, can't really deny that, but I would find it very fascinating. Maybe that could've been their "Cybertronian" counterparts if HasTak needed a marketing gimmick to excuse why chunky bugs and cheetahs turned into organic ones. Shrug.

I love Burcham's designs for Cybertronian Beasties in the last IDW comic with those characters. They weren't blocky and overly G1, but sleek and angular and something else entirely.

This?



It's kinda like a "Beast Machines meets Movieverse" aesthetic. Really alien like those two.

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Rtron wrote:I personally like G1 as an aesthetic on its own, my problem is that clearly Hasbro is trying to make it the only Transformers aesthetic, when until about 2015 Transformers was an eclectic brand with a little something for everyone, that was constantly reinventing itself and presenting new looks and possibilities for the Transformers.

This is simply untrue. You could certainly make a claim that Generations exclusive of Studio Series as a toyline umbrella is overly devoted to G1 and the toons, but even then you need exceptions like Beast Wars and Armada. Cyberverse is G1-ish, but no more so than Animated was.

On the other end of the spectrum, BotBots and Rescue Bots are arguably dead brands now, but the former postdates 2015, and the latter has continued past that point in multiple ways. I would be shocked if Hasbro isn't looking for the next weird brand spin-off even now. You can also compare TF to other legacy and evergreen properties like He-Man and GI Joe, where there is much less narrative and product innovation. Transformers is positively dynamic in contrast to those.

Yeah, well, but that's like saying that snails are faster that dead snails, lol. There's few toylines more stuck in time than those two you mentioned.

Botbots was different, yeah, but Hasbro always treated it as a secondary thing, to the point where they gave it a single season cartoon, and they waited until the toyline was over to do it. The "main" new things tend to be way more G1 inspired now. I think Cyberverse is way more G1 than Animated, not just in style but conceptually and in story.

Sabrblade wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:

SpaceEagle wrote:Okay but I'd honestly love to see a take on the Beastie Bots being done in the chunky, 80's mecha style of the G1 bots...
Would it probably upset fans? Probably, can't really deny that, but I would find it very fascinating. Maybe that could've been their "Cybertronian" counterparts if HasTak needed a marketing gimmick to excuse why chunky bugs and cheetahs turned into organic ones. Shrug.

I love Burcham's designs for Cybertronian Beasties in the last IDW comic with those characters. They weren't blocky and overly G1, but sleek and angular and something else entirely.

This?

It's kinda like a "Beast Machines meets Movieverse" aesthetic. Really alien like those two.

No, this:

Sabrblade wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:

SpaceEagle wrote:Okay but I'd honestly love to see a take on the Beastie Bots being done in the chunky, 80's mecha style of the G1 bots...
Would it probably upset fans? Probably, can't really deny that, but I would find it very fascinating. Maybe that could've been their "Cybertronian" counterparts if HasTak needed a marketing gimmick to excuse why chunky bugs and cheetahs turned into organic ones. Shrug.

I love Burcham's designs for Cybertronian Beasties in the last IDW comic with those characters. They weren't blocky and overly G1, but sleek and angular and something else entirely.

This?



It's kinda like a "Beast Machines meets Movieverse" aesthetic. Really alien like those two.

Haha, i was gonna say that gives me more Movieverse vibes, like when the comics tried to make the very-obviously-reused-from-UT designs fit the Bay style better.

This does make me wonder about the other 2 Deluxe Insecticons that we're missing, hope we get those soon.

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:

SpaceEagle wrote:Okay but I'd honestly love to see a take on the Beastie Bots being done in the chunky, 80's mecha style of the G1 bots...
Would it probably upset fans? Probably, can't really deny that, but I would find it very fascinating. Maybe that could've been their "Cybertronian" counterparts if HasTak needed a marketing gimmick to excuse why chunky bugs and cheetahs turned into organic ones. Shrug.

I love Burcham's designs for Cybertronian Beasties in the last IDW comic with those characters. They weren't blocky and overly G1, but sleek and angular and something else entirely.

This?

It's kinda like a "Beast Machines meets Movieverse" aesthetic. Really alien like those two.

No, this:

Ah yes, I forgot about this!