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robofreak wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Adamantoise, the Adamanchelid's big bad ass brother. They make Emerald Weapon look like a chump, and if you aren't careful, they'll one-shot you before you can launch an attack. At least Emerald gave you the chance to fight back...

To this day, I still have not killed Emerald or Ruby Weapon...

I did. It involved Cait Sith's Slots Limit Break (Which has the potential to one-shot every single enemy in the game) and a lot of trial and error. Especially Ruby, it took me a while to realize he is completely invincible until the fight becomes 1-on-1.

Counterpunch wrote:There's another...harder version of those too and I think that's where you get Dark Matter from. If I remember right, you need 6 Dark Matter total. Those were fun.

Shaolong Gui, which replaces the Adamachelids after a certain Cie'th Stone mission.

Put a MASTERED Knights of the Round + a few others on Barret with MISSING SCORE in Final Fantasy VII - there is a glitch with the damage calculation because Barrets attack with go over 65535, causing a stack overflow, meaning MISSING SCORE will make the game crash and kill a monster instantly.

Works on Ruby and Emerald weapon.

Amelie wrote:Put a MASTERED Knights of the Round + a few others on Barret with MISSING SCORE in Final Fantasy VII - there is a glitch with the damage calculation because Barrets attack with go over 65535, causing a stack overflow, meaning MISSING SCORE will make the game crash and kill a monster instantly.

Works on Ruby and Emerald weapon.

Hm, the Cait Sith way is better, seeing as you don't need to breed a Gold Chocobo, then grind like a madman to Master Knights of the Round.

I'm not gonna argue this -

If you know what you're doing the Gold Chocobo takes about 30\40 mins. To master Knights of the Round takes a little while, but its still quicker\easier than waiting for Cait Siths limit to come up.

If this was Final Fantasy 8 and I was fighting Omega, I'd probaby still stick to the similar trick with Selphie, though.

Amelie wrote:I'm not gonna argue this -

If you know what you're doing the Gold Chocobo takes about 30\40 mins. To master Knights of the Round takes a little while, but its still quicker\easier than waiting for Cait Siths limit to come up.

It takes less than 20 minutes to grind Cait Sith to get his Slots limit break, (Only need 40 kills, most characters need much more for their Level 2 Limit Break) then two minutes to get his Limit Bar full, then less than an hour of Trial and Error, and this can be done as soon as the fight is available.

And Omega...come to think of it, I don't think I used any particular trick, at least outside of Aura. Aura goes great with everything.

Shadowman wrote:And Omega...come to think of it, I don't think I used any particular trick, at least outside of Aura. Aura goes great with everything.

Get Squalls and Selphies limits up, with Squalls Gunblade on "manual" (so you can still access the menu in battle) - get Squall going, so you've got time for Selphies "The End" has a chance of popping up.

Job done!

Amelie wrote:

Shadowman wrote:And Omega...come to think of it, I don't think I used any particular trick, at least outside of Aura. Aura goes great with everything.

Get Squalls and Selphies limits up, with Squalls Gunblade on "manual" (so you can still access the menu in battle) - get Squall going, so you've got time for Selphies "The End" has a chance of popping up.

Job done!

I don't think I even used Selphie for that fight. I just beat him the old fashion way. Well, that and Aura. I was pretty much spamming any rounds of Aura I could spare at that point in the game.

Also, back on the subject of 13, it just occurred to me and I'll post this in spoiler tags: This is about the only game in the series where the heroes actually fail their stated long-term goal. They say "We're going to save Cocoon!" But then, after the final boss, Cocoon is rendered completely dead. Sure, they prevent it from crashing into Pulse, but saving Pulse wasn't on the to-do list. And while you could say that means it's supposed to be a more somber ending, they don't treat it as such and still act like they saved the day, even though Cocoon is destroyed and it's directly their fault.

Shadowman wrote:

Amelie wrote:

Shadowman wrote:And Omega...come to think of it, I don't think I used any particular trick, at least outside of Aura. Aura goes great with everything.

Get Squalls and Selphies limits up, with Squalls Gunblade on "manual" (so you can still access the menu in battle) - get Squall going, so you've got time for Selphies "The End" has a chance of popping up.

Job done!

I don't think I even used Selphie for that fight. I just beat him the old fashion way. Well, that and Aura. I was pretty much spamming any rounds of Aura I could spare at that point in the game.

Also, back on the subject of 13, it just occurred to me and I'll post this in spoiler tags: This is about the only game in the series where the heroes actually fail their stated long-term goal. They say "We're going to save Cocoon!" But then, after the final boss, Cocoon is rendered completely dead. Sure, they prevent it from crashing into Pulse, but saving Pulse wasn't on the to-do list. And while you could say that means it's supposed to be a more somber ending, they don't treat it as such and still act like they saved the day, even though Cocoon is destroyed and it's directly their fault.

Eh?

I'm not sure where you're coming from on this, but they do save Cocoon by giving the people who live there a new home. Cocoon (the place) was broken, rotten even due to Fal'Cie machinations. Once Bartandilus' plan goes into motion, Cocoon is essentially dead. All their food, oxygen, and life support come from Fal'Cie. Whether those Fal'Cie are destroyed by the party, by Bartandilus, or whether the people stay there, the system no longer works. Just like how a cocoon can only shelter the growing life form in it for a short period of defined time.

Cocoon (the people) is saved by giving them a new world to live on and freedom from servitude.

Except Orphan was the one keeping the benevolent Cocoon Fal'Cie alive. In fact, it was only Barthandelous and Orphan who were malevolent; the other Cocoon Fal'Cie were at worst, benign, and, at best, directly helping them, like Eden. And it's not like forcing all of it's citizens to live on Pulse is a good thing. The military was already shown getting it's teeth kicked in by the Pulse natives, now they get to "live" alongside them. And don't forget Titan, who is actively attempting to make stronger and stronger monsters.

Shadowman wrote:Except Orphan was the one keeping the benevolent Cocoon Fal'Cie alive. In fact, it was only Barthandelous and Orphan who were malevolent; the other Cocoon Fal'Cie were at worst, benign, and, at best, directly helping them, like Eden. And it's not like forcing all of it's citizens to live on Pulse is a good thing. The military was already shown getting it's teeth kicked in by the Pulse natives, now they get to "live" alongside them. And don't forget Titan, who is actively attempting to make stronger and stronger monsters.

That is a completely specious argument.

Counterpunch wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Except Orphan was the one keeping the benevolent Cocoon Fal'Cie alive. In fact, it was only Barthandelous and Orphan who were malevolent; the other Cocoon Fal'Cie were at worst, benign, and, at best, directly helping them, like Eden. And it's not like forcing all of it's citizens to live on Pulse is a good thing. The military was already shown getting it's teeth kicked in by the Pulse natives, now they get to "live" alongside them. And don't forget Titan, who is actively attempting to make stronger and stronger monsters.

That is a completely specious argument.

It's fridge logic. Killing someone's caretakers, throwing them in a pit of sharks, and calling it "freedom" doesn't sound like a particularly heroic thing to do.

And worse yet, the party never planned for a complete shutdown of Cocoon, despite knowing that if they killed Orphan it would happen. They had no idea Ragnarok would Deus Ex Machina Cocoon from crashing into Pulse. So they basically went through with a plan that they had rejected, with no plan on how to prevent the catastrophe they knew would happen.

Call me wrong all you like, but I'm not.

robofreak wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Adamantoise, the Adamanchelid's big bad ass brother. They make Emerald Weapon look like a chump, and if you aren't careful, they'll one-shot you before you can launch an attack. At least Emerald gave you the chance to fight back...

To this day, I still have not killed Emerald or Ruby Weapon...

My friend did it took him a year to do it.

First he got Knights of the Round.

Second he got the Underwater and Mimic Materia.

Third he got weapons and armor that doubled Materia growth and the Apocalypse (the second best sword for Cloud) that tripled Materia growth.

Fourth he bought 99 Tents.

Fifth he went to the crashed underwater plane and fought the monsters there repeatedly until the Mimic split twice (you need 3 Mimic Materias), this is what took him so long the monsters.

Sixth Then he bought a ton of HP Plus. He equipped the Underwater, Knights and MP Boost Materia (he gave that to Cloud) and Mimic too all three party members.

Seventh he challenged the Emerald weapon. In the first round he had Cloud summon the Knights then had the other characters mimic that and then Cloud would also mimic and he repeated that, no matter if he 2 characters (which he did) he didn't heal, use wall, haste, or use Phoenix Downs he just kept using Mimic Knights of the Nine and after 13 rounds Emerald Weapon was defeated.

Here is an easier way to defeat Emerald without barely even touching the pad -

Knights of the Round (red) + HP Absorb (Blue)
Mime (yellow) + Counter (blue)
W-Summon (yellow)
Pheonix (red) + Final Attack (blue)

Summon Knights of the Round (twice in one turn). Emerald Weapon will "Revenge Stamp" as a counter, causing you to "Mimic" Knights of the Round (twice) as a counter-counter, with the added bonus of fully healing yourself in the process, causing Emerald Weapon to "Revenge Stamp" as a counter-counter-counter, causing you to "Mimic" Knights of the Round.... ECT.

This trick would probably work with Bahamut ZERO or any high-level non-elemental summon (or magic) - its just quicker to use Knights of the Round.

Seriously Shadowman? You keep beating this dead horse to the point that I went from thinking it was a good game to being an amazing game just because you persist in believing it is bad because if it's inconsistencies in whic if you look at the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. Why? Because it is a game who's sole purpose is to ENTERTAIN. That's why any of us buy video games in the first place.

I don't even see why you bought the game in the first place if it was going to make you this upset over the frikkin thing.

The fact of the matter is that most RPG players have bought this game and have enjoyed it. Sure it does have it quircks that make it stand out from a normal Final Fantasy title, but the game itself is amazing. We all have our likes and dislikes about each game, but it's a simple matter in which everyone can't be kept happy. You've stated your dislike and your reasons for being annoyed with it. I think it's time to give it a rest.

Now, changing topics slightly. Does anyone want to donate to my "Help me get Play Arts Kai Odin and Shiva fund?"

I'm a little burned out on the game due to a need for grinding, but I'll get back to it soon. Chapter 12 is a grinding nightmare and the only things worth killing are Behemoth kings and Adamantchelids.

Anyone have any good CP farming strategies for this area? I also need an idea to get a Trapezohedron so I can finish off Lightning's Lionheart weapon. It'a ready for Ultimate.

Shadowman wrote:And worse yet, the party [spoiler]never planned for a complete shutdown of Cocoon, despite knowing that if they killed Orphan it would happen.

"Cocoon won't die, we're not here for that. We came for you"

"Refusing me merely condemns another to face your focus tomorrow."

"Destruction and salvation, two irreconcilable focuses."

Throw out all the trope page and commentary you want. Those three lines from the game alone show that the party was clear in its goal, they had no choice but to act. Yes, there is certainly a Dues Ex Machina component to the way the game ends. That doesn't dismiss that the party is placed in a no win situation and even with that being the case, they choose to act because inaction brings certain doom for everyone and everything. Saving Cocoon meant the big-bad had to go. There was no scenario where saving Cocoon would have allowed him to remain.

robofreak wrote:Seriously Shadowman? You keep beating this dead horse to the point that I went from thinking it was a good game to being an amazing game just because you persist in believing it is bad because if it's inconsistencies in whic if you look at the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. Why? Because it is a game who's sole purpose is to ENTERTAIN. That's why any of us buy video games in the first place.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not particularly entertained by massive plot holes.

robofreak wrote:You've stated your dislike and your reasons for being annoyed with it. I think it's time to give it a rest.

I'll stop stating it when people stop arguing with me over it.

robofreak wrote:I don't even see why you bought the game in the first place if it was going to make you this upset over the frikkin thing.

Because I didn't think it was going to be as bad as it was.

Counterpunch wrote:

Shadowman wrote:And worse yet, the party [spoiler]never planned for a complete shutdown of Cocoon, despite knowing that if they killed Orphan it would happen.

"Cocoon won't die, we're not here for that. We came for you"

"Refusing me merely condemns another to face your focus tomorrow."

"Destruction and salvation, two irreconcilable focuses."

Throw out all the trope page and commentary you want. Those three lines from the game alone show that the party was clear in its goal, they had no choice but to act. Yes, there is certainly a Dues Ex Machina component to the way the game ends. That doesn't dismiss that the party is placed in a no win situation and even with that being the case, they choose to act because inaction brings certain doom for everyone and everything. Saving Cocoon meant the big-bad had to go. There was no scenario where saving Cocoon would have allowed him to remain.

Um...maybe I missed the line, but where exactly do they say if they found a way to escape that chamber at the end, everyone else was screwed?

robofreak wrote:The fact of the matter is that most RPG players have bought this game and have enjoyed it.

As an RPG fan, I didn't enjoy Final Fanatasy XIII, in fact it's the only FF game that I traded in. I didn't like the combat system, the characters, the world, or the story. The only thing I liked was the graphics and Lightening's voice actress who did the voice of Liara in Mass Effect, in fact she was the main reason I bought the game.

While graphically it's a great looking game, but IMHO Final Fantasy XIII is a classic example of style over substance.

Don't take it personally I didn't like it, if you like it more power to you.

Cyberstrike wrote:

robofreak wrote:The fact of the matter is that most RPG players have bought this game and have enjoyed it.

As an RPG fan, I didn't enjoy Final Fanatasy XIII, in fact it's the only FF game that I traded in. I didn't like the combat system, the characters, the world, or the story.

I think that's a completely valid complaint about the game.

From a RPG standpoint, it's NOT a good game because there's not divergent paths or a large degree of character manipulation.

It's almost more akin to Kingdom Hearts in many ways.

Come at it like that and I have no problem with that kind of critique.

I do disagree about the story and characters because the growth and emotional displays are, for how I saw it, quite genuine and well done.

Shadowman wrote:

robofreak wrote:You've stated your dislike and your reasons for being annoyed with it. I think it's time to give it a rest.

I'll stop stating it when people stop arguing with me over it.

That's complete bullshit right there.

You've been the one to drag the topic down even after our first little debate had come and gone. (Here: final-fantasy-xiii-t75123s30.php#p1206671 )

If you think debates and discussions only end when you get the last word in and people stop arguing with you then for starters, you need to grow up. For another thing, if you continue in that line of thinking you're not going to recognize when people have simply dismissed your ideas and left you out of a conversation while still thinking that you've "won".

Counterpunch wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

robofreak wrote:You've stated your dislike and your reasons for being annoyed with it. I think it's time to give it a rest.

I'll stop stating it when people stop arguing with me over it.

That's complete bullshit right there.

Enough said.

Anyways, I was a little tired when I did make my previous comment about the RPG standpoint and yes when it comes to having diversity in fighting and travel and everything we've come to love about our RPG's, it is definitely sub-par. As a game with amazing graphics and story though, I think it's awesome and a lot of my FF buddies agreed.

However, like CP, I like the characters and how they developed over the course of the game. Let's break down a couple:

Hope: Goes from scared to little boy to a young man who is learning to stand up for things he believes in and defend his friends at all costs.

Lightning: Goes from cold and distant, to friendly and warm. (Okay, still not the warmest person of the bunch but a lot of her walls are brought down over the course of the game.)

Snow: Egogistical pride-ridden character with a hero complex the size of Jupiter. He learns just how helpless he really can be, but in spite of that he tones down his antics and insists on pushing himself to the limits to at least give his part.

Sazh: At first he's afraid of things he doesn't understand, but as time progresses, he learns to accept the unknown as a normal part of life.

Vanille: Used to hide behind displays of happiness to mask the pain and fear inside. Later on learns that despite her past she will still be accepted by her friends and eventually gains a truer sense of who she is and is able to become a more happy character for it.

I know I forgot Fang, but those are what came to mind. I might be wrong on a couple as the story did blur together at some points, but overall, I think it had great character development unlike some of the other recent FF titles.

Counterpunch wrote:If you think debates and discussions only end when you get the last word in and people stop arguing with you then for starters, you need to grow up.

What I meant was, if someone challenges my opinion, I'm going to defend it. Debating tends to end quite abruptly if someone just ignores a counter-point, you see.

Back on topic, I do agree with Robofreak (And, by extension, disagree with Cyberstrike) that yeah, the game actually had decent, easily likable characters who developed quite nicely. That and the graphics and design were easily the high-points of the game.