United EX Story Tankmaster vs. Marinemaster - "Ocean Encounter" Translation
Sunday, November 25th, 2012 9:45AM CST
Category: Toy NewsPosted by: El Duque Views: 32,334
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It was an ambush that reversed the flow of battle. The cruel assassin Tankmaster, who had revealed himself from deep within the scrap, pressed his gun to Grimmaster’s head in lieu of an introduction.
“Death to the traitor…”
These were the only words he would utter to his targets, punctuated by a single gunshot. After solemnly speaking this phrase, he began to pull the trigger… when as if by magic, the pistol flew from his hand.
The shot had come from the glistening ocean waters. A speedboat tore through the water towards the landfill, soaring through the air and transforming as it neared land.
“An Autobot?!”
Before him was Marinemaster, who had been patrolling the ocean waters.
“Don’t get too full of yourself, kid. Want to see what I’ve up got up my sleeve?”
Tankmaster’s Targetmaster partner attached to his arm in the shape of a giant claw, ready to intercept any fire. But Marinemaster, like a hovercraft skimming across the waves, displayed the same nimble footwork on land as he fired a perfectly-aimed shot from his own Targetmaster.
“What’s wrong? If you blink, you’ll miss me!”
“I’d rather not take your life, so maybe you could give me something in return? That’s assuming you don’t want to go down with the ship alongside your captain, of course.”
Marinemaster addressed his incapacitated foe.
“You’re no executioner, boy.”
“Maybe not, but at a time like this, I’ll do what I have to.”
Marinemaster’s young face wore a conflicted expression, but Tankmaster noticed a resolve in his optics that matched his words. Perhaps this was why the captive seemed oddly quick to comply.
“My life belongs to Megatron alone. I owe nothing to the so-called “High Regent” leading our forces on Earth…”
And so, the Autobots would learn of a grand scheme in play…
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Tankmaster
Function: Assassin
Targetmaster: Wheezel
Strength 8
Intelligence
7
Speed 6
Endurance 9
Rank 8
Courage 5
Fireblast 10
Skill 8
Total 61
A hardened killer who moves behind the scenes to eliminate enemies of Megatron. Like Rollermaster, he joined Master Chaos to investigate the motives of the High Regent.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Marinemaster
Function: Ocean Defense
Targetmaster: Rotorbolt
Strength 7
Intelligence
8
Speed 10
Endurance 7
Rank 6
Courage 7
Fireblast 8
Skill 7
Total 60
Although he only recently came online, Marinemaster has unfaltering confidence in his skill at aquatic battles. His vehicle mode speed exceeds 180 knots. Occasionally overestimates his own abilities.
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Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on November 25th, 2012 @ 10:26am CST
Posted by RhA on November 25th, 2012 @ 2:44pm CST
Posted by Sabrblade on November 25th, 2012 @ 2:45pm CST
Funny thing is, as I was reading this, I kept thinking, "Okay, Marinemaster's probably Boater (since he's addressed as a kid) like others have said. Guess they were right." But then, BAM! Hydra's notes say Manta Ray. I didn't even catch the motto of his.JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Well, Sabrblade was right, Marinemaster is G2 Manta Ray. Someone give him a cookie.
Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on November 25th, 2012 @ 2:52pm CST
Posted by Va'al on November 25th, 2012 @ 2:56pm CST
RhA wrote:Scr*w the backstory, I just want these pretty toys.
As I already have the less pretty but still fun Hasbro versions, I am wholeheartedly enjoying the stories!
Yay stories!
EDIT: I just saw how Airmaster actually works with the dinodrones. Dayum.
Posted by Sabrblade on November 25th, 2012 @ 2:57pm CST
Well, Devastator did die in the underground lava flow in Zone episode 1.JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Now all that's left is Buildmaster and Assaultmaster. Well, technically only Buildmaster as we know Assaultmaster is actually Clouder controlling an Eldedroid. I still say it's Devastator, but I'm willing to accept Gravedigger or even Bonecrasher or Scrapper.
Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on November 25th, 2012 @ 3:14pm CST
Sabrblade wrote:Well, Devastator did die in the underground lava flow in Zone episode 1.JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Now all that's left is Buildmaster and Assaultmaster. Well, technically only Buildmaster as we know Assaultmaster is actually Clouder controlling an Eldedroid. I still say it's Devastator, but I'm willing to accept Gravedigger or even Bonecrasher or Scrapper.
True, but resurrection is no hard feat. Didn't Bruticus die in the Zone story as well, or did the Ambiguity Phenomenon save him Hey, what was the name of the 8th Contructicon again?
Posted by Sabrblade on November 25th, 2012 @ 3:32pm CST
Yeah, but for him to come back so soon feels kinda lax on his death in Zone having any lasting impact.JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:True, but resurrection is no hard feat.
The latter.JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Didn't Bruticus die in the Zone story as well, or did the Ambiguity Phenomenon save him
"Eighth Constructicon".JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Hey, what was the name of the 8th Contructicon again?
Posted by RhA on November 25th, 2012 @ 4:17pm CST
Va'al wrote:RhA wrote:Scr*w the backstory, I just want these pretty toys.
As I already have the less pretty but still fun Hasbro versions, I am wholeheartedly enjoying the stories!
Yay stories!
EDIT: I just saw how Airmaster actually works with the dinodrones. Dayum.
I only own Heavythread, but even the recolor is pretty. This set is a WANT.
Posted by Va'al on November 25th, 2012 @ 4:52pm CST
RhA wrote:I only own Heavythread, but even the recolor is pretty. This set is a WANT.
I was considering repainting HT's eyes red in torso mode, before Takara came up with the EX line.
(But I need to find some good way of doing it.)
My wallet allowed me just enough to scrape the last Decepticon Commanders together (although I have no love for Steamhammer - owned him once and gave him away), I will not venture into Takaraland. And I've said it before, not a massive fan of Marinemaster's colours.
I love Tankmaster though...
Posted by Sabrblade on November 25th, 2012 @ 5:08pm CST
Posted by RhA on November 25th, 2012 @ 5:32pm CST
Va'al wrote:RhA wrote:I only own Heavythread, but even the recolor is pretty. This set is a WANT.
I was considering repainting HT's eyes red in torso mode, before Takara came up with the EX line.
(But I need to find some good way of doing it.)
My wallet allowed me just enough to scrape the last Decepticon Commanders together (although I have no love for Steamhammer - owned him once and gave him away), I will not venture into Takaraland. And I've said it before, not a massive fan of Marinemaster's colours.
I love Tankmaster though...
If you squint your eyes you can see Ultra Magnus vs. Galvatron.
Posted by DISCHARGE on November 25th, 2012 @ 7:56pm CST
Va'al wrote:
EDIT: I just saw how Airmaster actually works with the dinodrones. Dayum.
I am so glad they are mentioning Megatron in the storyline. This gives more credence to my custom, and he looks just as good with the dino drones
Posted by Sabrblade on November 25th, 2012 @ 9:43pm CST
Even though Megs is dead (or presumed dead) by this point, what with Scrash leading the Cons and all.DISCHARGE wrote:I am so glad they are mentioning Megatron in the storyline.
Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on November 26th, 2012 @ 9:40am CST
Sabrblade wrote:Even though Megs is dead (or presumed dead) by this point, what with Scrash leading the Cons and all.DISCHARGE wrote:I am so glad they are mentioning Megatron in the storyline.
Tankmaster wrote:“My life belongs to Megatron alone. I owe nothing to the so-called “High Regent” leading our forces on Earth…”
Shows where his ultimate loyalties lay. And Megatron was pretty much out of commission after Return of Convoy, but would return for G-2.
Posted by KNM2012 on November 26th, 2012 @ 8:07pm CST
Seriously, I wish he would have just created an entirely new Generation 1 universe that mixes elements from Generation 1 elements done by Takara, Hasbro, and Marvel. The events would make a whole lot more sense, allow the figures from UNITED to have some kind of history (as I feel that "UNITED" Rodimus Prime is more based on the Marvel version, than the animated version). And other things people do not care to hear me rant on about.
But yeah... I wonder which member of Devastator will return. Because chances are, Hydra may choose to ignore the events in the OVA (on account that the "Hydraverse" has parts of the Victory manga merge with the anime series). But whatever the case may be, that is what I am dubbing it before people start calling it that.
Posted by Sabrblade on November 26th, 2012 @ 8:27pm CST
Yeah. I've been conversing with Hydra on the nature of these stories he's written and which characters have dimension-hopped and which haven't. Straxus is apparently his Marvel self, while Grindcore is not his IDW self but a JG1 cartoon continuity version of him who is only just now making himself known.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:And Hydra throws another curveball, when you think it will be a slider.
Seriously, I wish he would have just created an entirely new Generation 1 universe that mixes elements from Generation 1 elements done by Takara, Hasbro, and Marvel. The events would make a whole lot more sense, allow the figures from UNITED to have some kind of history (as I feel that "UNITED" Rodimus Prime is more based on the Marvel version, than the animated version). And other things people do not care to hear me rant on about.
But yeah... I wonder which member of Devastator will return. Because chances are, Hydra may choose to ignore the events in the OVA (on account that the "Hydraverse" has parts of the Victory manga merge with the anime series). But whatever the case may be, that is what I am dubbing it before people start calling it that.
And, regarding the two United mini-manga that were in the Million Publishing Generations books, according to Hydra, those two are a micro-continuity completely unrelated to these EX stories or the cartoon continuity itself, which does match up with what artist Guido Guidi (who worked on the second one) said about it.
Hydra also just told me that it's on-package toy bios that are considered to be the "primary fiction" (as he put it) of the United toyline. I'm currently waiting for him to respond to my latest inquisition on the bios since there haven't been many of them translated into English.
Posted by KNM2012 on November 26th, 2012 @ 9:58pm CST
Sabrblade wrote:Yeah. I've been conversing with Hydra on the nature of these stories he's written and which characters have dimension-hopped and which haven't. Straxus is apparently his Marvel self, while Grindcore is not his IDW self but a JG1 cartoon continuity version of him who is only just now making himself known.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:And Hydra throws another curveball, when you think it will be a slider.
Seriously, I wish he would have just created an entirely new Generation 1 universe that mixes elements from Generation 1 elements done by Takara, Hasbro, and Marvel. The events would make a whole lot more sense, allow the figures from UNITED to have some kind of history (as I feel that "UNITED" Rodimus Prime is more based on the Marvel version, than the animated version). And other things people do not care to hear me rant on about.
But yeah... I wonder which member of Devastator will return. Because chances are, Hydra may choose to ignore the events in the OVA (on account that the "Hydraverse" has parts of the Victory manga merge with the anime series). But whatever the case may be, that is what I am dubbing it before people start calling it that.
And, regarding the two United mini-manga that were in the Million Publishing Generations books, according to Hydra, those two are a micro-continuity completely unrelated to these EX stories or the cartoon continuity itself, which does match up with what artist Guido Guidi (who worked on the second one) said about it.
Hydra also just told me that it's on-package toy bios that are considered to be the "primary fiction" (as he put it) of the United toyline. I'm currently waiting for him to respond to my latest inquisition on the bios since there haven't been many of them translated into English.
I agree. Both were based on different eras within the UNITED timline. So the way I see it... It goes as: Manga #1 -> The Transformers -> The Rebirth -> UNITED/2010 -> elements from both Hasbro's Generation 2 and Marvel's Generaion One -> Victory -> UNITED EX -> Operation: Combination. Victory and Operation: Combination are self-contained (the last time I checked). This allows time gaps to be added, and also - if he dares - to say that the dimension hopping is an aftereffect of that continuity's Underbase Saga. (Oh, and totally eliminates Kiss Players in the process.)
Posted by Sabrblade on November 26th, 2012 @ 10:12pm CST
I don't quite think you get what I was saying. I meant that he said both of the Million Publishing mangas weren't part of the cartoon timeline.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:I agree. Both were based on different eras within the UNITED timline. So the way I see it... It goes as: Manga #1 -> The Transformers -> The Rebirth -> UNITED/2010 -> elements from both Hasbro's Generation 2 and Marvel's Generaion One -> Victory -> UNITED EX -> Operation: Combination. Victory and Operation: Combination are self-contained (the last time I checked). This allows time gaps to be added, and also - if he dares - to say that the dimension hopping is an aftereffect of that continuity's Underbase Saga. (Oh, and totally eliminates Kiss Players in the process.)
The first one certainly doesn't fit since they all had their WFC bodies, while the cartoon itself shows the creation of Megatron and Convoy in their original G1 bodies that they would keep after their arrival on Earth.
Posted by KNM2012 on November 27th, 2012 @ 12:02am CST
Sabrblade wrote:I don't quite think you get what I was saying. I meant that he said both of the Million Publishing mangas weren't part of the cartoon timeline.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:I agree. Both were based on different eras within the UNITED timline. So the way I see it... It goes as: Manga #1 -> The Transformers -> The Rebirth -> UNITED/2010 -> elements from both Hasbro's Generation 2 and Marvel's Generaion One -> Victory -> UNITED EX -> Operation: Combination. Victory and Operation: Combination are self-contained (the last time I checked). This allows time gaps to be added, and also - if he dares - to say that the dimension hopping is an aftereffect of that continuity's Underbase Saga. (Oh, and totally eliminates Kiss Players in the process.)
The first one certainly doesn't fit since they all had their WFC bodies, while the cartoon itself shows the creation of Megatron and Convoy in their original G1 bodies that they would keep after their arrival on Earth.
Honestly, I ignored it. Because you left out the fact that HYDRA said that UNITED EX coincides with Operation: Combination - A non-animated series that was not officially part of the animated family until the final timeline debuted in 2008. Plus, you also talked about the Zone OVA, which was retconned in favor of its non-animated counterpart. Which was what leads to Battlestars (non-animated), which is followed by with Operation: Combination (still non-animated).
In other words... TOMY made it clear that they allow anything Transformers to be used, as long as nothing conflicts with what they put out. And that even means that they could reissue Skyfire as Jetfire and have him be the leader of the Autobots (as it is canon when the Milton Bradley line matters).
Posted by Sabrblade on November 27th, 2012 @ 12:52am CST
When/where was it said that Operation Combination wasn't part of the cartoon continuity prior to 2006/2007 (which were the years the large timeline were released)?KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Honestly, I ignored it. Because you left out the fact that HYDRA said that UNITED EX coincides with Operation: Combination - A non-animated series that was not officially part of the animated family until the final timeline debuted in 2008.
I don't get what's the issue here. The cartoon timeline includes the EX story, but not the Million Publishing stuff.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Plus, you also talked about the Zone OVA, which was retconned in favor of its non-animated counterpart. Which was what leads to Battlestars (non-animated), which is followed by with Operation: Combination (still non-animated).
In other words... TOMY made it clear that they allow anything Transformers to be used, as long as nothing conflicts with what they put out. And that even means that they could reissue Skyfire as Jetfire and have him be the leader of the Autobots (as it is canon when the Milton Bradley line matters).
Hydra said that Japan considers the on-package toy bios of the pre-EX United toys to be the main fiction, and that they consider the Million Publishing mangas to be standalone micro-continuities not connected to the cartoon continuity.
Posted by KNM2012 on November 27th, 2012 @ 3:26am CST
Sabrblade wrote:When/where was it said that Operation Combination wasn't part of the cartoon continuity prior to 2006/2007 (which were the years the large timeline were released)?
Lets see... The answer would be 1990, as the animated fiction concluded with the Zone OVA. This was later confirmed by TOMY in 2007 when they tried to justify the merger, even though there was the issue with Predaking's longevity.
Sabrblade wrote:Hydra said that Japan considers the on-package toy bios of the pre-EX United toys to be the main fiction, and that they consider the Million Publishing mangas to be standalone micro-continuities not connected to the cartoon continuity.
And this is something that I'd prefer having a one-on-one conversation with HYDRA on. Because it sounds like they are using the "Autobot edition" continuity that became official in 1998 (1996 debuted the Japanese track for The Rebirth, but it was not until 1998 did they put a Japanese track for Hasbro's version).
But regardless, there is a few things I'd like to chat with HYDRA and verify.
Posted by Sabrblade on November 27th, 2012 @ 10:03am CST
Got a link to an official source that states "All post-Zone series were not part of the cartoon timeline until 2007?" Cuz, all accounts that I (and many others) have come across refer to them as a part of it, with each of them making specific callbacks to things like Transformers: The Movie, The Headmasters cartoon, and the Victory cartoon.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Lets see... The answer would be 1990, as the animated fiction concluded with the Zone OVA. This was later confirmed by TOMY in 2007 when they tried to justify the merger, even though there was the issue with Predaking's longevity.
Also, don't forget that Zone's story didn't begun with its cartoon OVA or its sole manga chapter, but with its story pages. The OVA/manga story takes place between Story Page 3 and Story Page 4.
Well, he's an active member over at The Allspark Forums. Here's the thread in which he's giving commentary on each of the United EX chapters.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:And this is something that I'd prefer having a one-on-one conversation with HYDRA on. Because it sounds like they are using the "Autobot edition" continuity that became official in 1998 (1996 debuted the Japanese track for The Rebirth, but it was not until 1998 did they put a Japanese track for Hasbro's version).
But regardless, there is a few things I'd like to chat with HYDRA and verify.
I've been trying to ask him if he knows of any place that has the pre-EX United toy bios translated into English, but he hasn't answered.
Also, what's "Autobot Edition"?
Posted by KNM2012 on November 27th, 2012 @ 4:14pm CST
Sabrblade wrote:Got a link to an official source that states "All post-Zone series were not part of the cartoon timeline until 2007?" Cuz, all accounts that I (and many others) have come across refer to them as a part of it, with each of them making specific callbacks to things like Transformers: The Movie, The Headmasters cartoon, and the Victory cartoon.
I have a translation that was given to me. I will pass it to you when I can. Because there was a portion where they detail (see response below) the issue of how Predaking was killed immediately in the OVA, but not in the story pages.
Sabrblade wrote:Also, don't forget that Zone's story didn't begun with its cartoon OVA or its sole manga chapter, but with its story pages. The OVA/manga story takes place between Story Page 3 and Story Page 4.
Problem with that is the fact that Trypticon and Predaking were around as late as Part 6. Which is something that TOMY could have retconned, but instead implied it still happened... Which also means that the events in the OVA lasted a lot longer than we were shown. (I feel ripped off.)
Sabrblade wrote:Well, he's an active member over at The Allspark Forums. Here's the thread in which he's giving commentary on each of the United EX chapters.
Meh. I do not need no commentary. I just have a lot of stuff to discuss with him. Get in his head and whatnot. Because from what he is saying, UNITED would be based on the "Autobot edition" (see below) continuity. Namely because it has been a Japanese continuity since 1986 (The Rebirth came first). And because of that, Masterforce could have been about the Powermasters... Not the Godmasters. And Victory is untouchable, as they could simply say Ginrai is an Autobot that was based on Powermaster Optimus Prime... Which could also further validate Star Saber saving the lovable former Dinforce member.
Sabrblade wrote:I've been trying to ask him if he knows of any place that has the pre-EX United toy bios translated into English, but he hasn't answered.
Yeah. I am assuming that they are not all based in the same continuity. I mean, unless Galvatron was reformatted back into Megatron by this mysterious leader, Optimus Prime may be the only core character that did not dimension hop.
Sabrblade wrote:Also, what's "Autobot Edition"?
From what I was told, there are two LD sets - The Takara set and the Pioneer set. The Takara set was said to cover season 1 (Convoy Set), season 2 (Megatron Set), 2010, and The Headmasters (which included a Japanese dubbing of... ugh... The Rebirth). Whereas the Pioneer set does not have the additional clip shows and (along with their DVD set) also caps off with (again, ugh) The Rebirth.
Problem is that I have no real confirmation on if they did a Japanese dubbing for the Sunbow version or just did the packaging for international appeal. Or if it a fusion of the Sunbow and Takara versions. Because as we speak, until TOMY decides to put out an edition that combines the two sets, it is only a speculation that Pioneer did a new dub for their set.
However, if it is confirmed that this was done, then we can calmly say which Japanese continuity UNITED EX comes from.
Posted by Sabrblade on November 27th, 2012 @ 4:54pm CST
Ok.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:I have a translation that was given to me. I will pass it to you when I can. Because there was a portion where they detail (see response below) the issue of how Predaking was killed immediately in the OVA, but not in the story pages.
Meh, the Transformers media is no stranger to continuity errors.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Problem with that is the fact that Trypticon and Predaking were around as late as Part 6. Which is something that TOMY could have retconned, but instead implied it still happened... Which also means that the events in the OVA lasted a lot longer than we were shown. (I feel ripped off.)
By "commentary", i meant that he's posting in this thread talking with us about the stories and answering questions about them and such. I gave you the link so you might also talk with him and such.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Meh. I do not need no commentary. I just have a lot of stuff to discuss with him. Get in his head and whatnot.
I'm honestly not quite understanding what you mean here.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Because from what he is saying, UNITED would be based on the "Autobot edition" (see below) continuity. Namely because it has been a Japanese continuity since 1986 (The Rebirth came first). And because of that, Masterforce could have been about the Powermasters... Not the Godmasters. And Victory is untouchable, as they could simply say Ginrai is an Autobot that was based on Powermaster Optimus Prime... Which could also further validate Star Saber saving the lovable former Dinforce member.
From what he's mentioned about the bios, he figured that they were telling bits of events taking place off screen at various point in the cartoon timeline, probably at some point when Megatron's alive.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Yeah. I am assuming that they are not all based in the same continuity. I mean, unless Galvatron was reformatted back into Megatron by this mysterious leader, Optimus Prime may be the only core character that did not dimension hop.
As for the point in time United EX takes place, since it's concurrent with Operation Combination, Scrash is the current leader with (Ultra) Megatron out of commission for the time being.
Wait. Them making two different LD sets doesn't make one more canon than the other. It's not like the content of one overrides the other. Even though the Pioneer sets lacked the clip shows and had the missing English episodes ("Attack of the Autobots", "Day of the Machines", and "The Rebirth") dubbed into Japanese, that doesn't mean the Takara LDs no longer matter. "The Rebirth" and them were likely dubbed into Japanese just to complete the dubs of the American episodes, but The Headmasters/Masterforce/Victory/Zone/RoC/OpCom/G-2 is the official path taken by the cartoon timeline. To the Japanese, "The Rebirth" is an alternate path.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:From what I was told, there are two LD sets - The Takara set and the Pioneer set. The Takara set was said to cover season 1 (Convoy Set), season 2 (Megatron Set), 2010, and The Headmasters (which included a Japanese dubbing of... ugh... The Rebirth). Whereas the Pioneer set does not have the additional clip shows and (along with their DVD set) also caps off with (again, ugh) The Rebirth.
Problem is that I have no real confirmation on if they did a Japanese dubbing for the Sunbow version or just did the packaging for international appeal. Or if it a fusion of the Sunbow and Takara versions. Because as we speak, until TOMY decides to put out an edition that combines the two sets, it is only a speculation that Pioneer did a new dub for their set.
However, if it is confirmed that this was done, then we can calmly say which Japanese continuity UNITED EX comes from.
Posted by KNM2012 on November 27th, 2012 @ 6:46pm CST
Sabrblade wrote:Wait. Them making two different LD sets doesn't make one more canon than the other. It's not like the content of one overrides the other. Even though the Pioneer sets lacked the clip shows and had the missing English episodes ("Attack of the Autobots", "Day of the Machines", and "The Rebirth") dubbed into Japanese, that doesn't mean the Takara LDs no longer matter. "The Rebirth" and them were likely dubbed into Japanese just to complete the dubs of the American episodes, but The Headmasters/Masterforce/Victory/Zone/RoC/OpCom/G-2 is the official path taken by the cartoon timeline. To the Japanese, "The Rebirth" is an alternate path.
*facepalms* Please stop doing that. I am fully aware that you know your non-Pioneer works, but you also (again) ignored a lot of key facts while trying to dismiss what I am saying. Something that is a contradiction, and disallows you to realize that... Once again... Me helping you have more things to research and even discuss with HYDRA is an anxiety-based event.
So yeah... I am already under a lot of stress, and you telling me wrong without having your facts straightened out only adds to the anxiety portion of my stress. So please, once again, stop and listen. Because I am trying to pass this info onto you (as in you can pass it onto others, and maybe even delve deeper into it once I am gone).
So with the series... Even though it is, as always, off-topic:
Takara version: 74 + TV special + OVA = seasons 1 + 2; 32 = 2010; plus the other series.
Pioneer version: 30 + TV special + OVA = seasons 1 + 2; 30 + The Rebirth = 2010; no further series.
In other words - Both Pioneer and Takara (pre-merger) stated that the Pioneer version was made for those who wanted a more international flare. As in, if confirmed, giving the Japanese fanbase a Japanese dubbed version of the Sunbow continuity. As in, if confirmed, giving Takara a second of three (read: Binaltech/Alternity) Japanese-based animated continuities.
Which means that manga #2 ties into an alternate version of The Rebirth. e-HOBBY's 2010 story ties into a different version of Pioneer's version of 2010. Galvatron could become "Classics" Megatron and face off against a Powermaster Optimus Prime, instead of the events detailed in Masterforce. HYDRA's version of Victory is validated. Oh, and for the sake of UNITED EX - It also allows the death of Devastor in Zone to be retconned. Namely on account that in the first series, he survived a lava bath. Which means that HYDRA could use any of those members without causing any conflicts.
Posted by Sabrblade on November 27th, 2012 @ 7:41pm CST
What key facts? Where are you getting your info? What are your sources for the LDs representing two separate continuities?KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:*facepalms* Please stop doing that. I am fully aware that you know your non-Pioneer works, but you also (again) ignored a lot of key facts while trying to dismiss what I am saying.
What?KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Something that is a contradiction, and disallows you to realize that... Once again... Me helping you have more things to research and even discuss with HYDRA is an anxiety-based event.
Okay, I will gladly listen. But I need to see where your information came from, as I want to see where you're coming from here so I can be on the same page as yourself.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:So yeah... I am already under a lot of stress, and you telling me wrong without having your facts straightened out only adds to the anxiety portion of my stress. So please, once again, stop and listen. Because I am trying to pass this info onto you (as in you can pass it onto others, and maybe even delve deeper into it once I am gone).
I know you to be a smart, enthusiastic guy who doesn't make stuff up and takes this stuff seriously. So I want to see from the source where you came to acquire this information that you have accumulated.
Tatakae! Chou Robot Seimeitai Transformers (and its sequel 2010) is all one show, one world, one continuity. Just because two different DVD companies released their own versions of it doesn't make it be two different continuities.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:So with the series... Even though it is, as always, off-topic:
Takara version: 74 + TV special + OVA = seasons 1 + 2; 32 = 2010; plus the other series.
Pioneer version: 30 + TV special + OVA = seasons 1 + 2; 30 + The Rebirth = 2010; no further series.
In other words - Both Pioneer and Takara (pre-merger) stated that the Pioneer version was made for those who wanted a more international flare. As in, if confirmed, giving the Japanese fanbase a Japanese dubbed version of the Sunbow continuity. As in, if confirmed, giving Takara a second of three (read: Binaltech/Alternity) Japanese-based animated continuities.
For an English example, look at the Kid Rhino and Shout! Factory DVD sets of the English G1 cartoon. They both released the same show on DVD with the episodes ordered differently between each company's DVD release. But, that doesn't make there be a "Rhino continuity" and a "Shout! continuity". It's the same show, the same world, the same continuity, just produced in two different commercial formats. The real world DVDs differ, but the fictional world of the cartoon remains the same.
The creators of that story said it was its own micro-continuity autonomous from any existing one. Though it contains elements from "The Rebirth" it also contains elements from Marvel G1 and The Headmasters, but is its own entity.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Which means that manga #2 ties into an alternate version of The Rebirth.
Which e-HOBBY story? Now this I don't know of.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:e-HOBBY's 2010 story ties into a different version of Pioneer's version of 2010. Galvatron could become "Classics" Megatron and face off against a Powermaster Optimus Prime, instead of the events detailed in Masterforce.
Unless it's the "Eighth Constructicon". Or a Constructicon-esque character.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:HYDRA's version of Victory is validated. Oh, and for the sake of UNITED EX - It also allows the death of Devastor in Zone to be retconned. Namely on account that in the first series, he survived a lava bath. Which means that HYDRA could use any of those members without causing any conflicts.
Posted by KNM2012 on November 27th, 2012 @ 11:39pm CST
But yeah, Sabr, if you want links and info... Just ask. Like I tell everybody, as long as you are not dismissive, you have my help.
Information on Pioneer's version: http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Geneon_Universal_Entertainment
Translation for Transformers 2010, from Amazon Japan (LINK): "Limited Edition DVD-BOX was recorded 3 episodes of unaired TV series was broadcast in Japan, Transformers "U.S. version" is in addition to all 30 story! TV series finally appeared."
In other words - Both the LD and DVD are the same. And Amazon Japan confirms that the Pioneer set is a Japanese version of the U.S. series. And since it was dubbed in Japanese, and is based on the U.S. series, that makes it an untouched continuity... FREE OF KISS PLAYERS. (Kiss Players fans: )
Continuity: Comparing U.S. versions of the same product is like comparing red apples to Roman red apples. Continuity as a whole come in terms of variations depicted by a singular notion,and can spawn parallel continuities just by making a significant enough change. Takara did this by changing names and terminologies, adding clip episodes, removing The Rebirth, and adding extra series.
So when it comes to Japanese animated G1 continuities... You have: 1985-1990 Takara, 1998/1999 Pioneer, and 2006/2007 TOMY. Take note that I am excluding the Zone manga and everything after that as it was made to promote the toyline... Not continue the animated series.
And for extra credit, you have... This. In the Dutch version of the continuity created by Marvel, Optimus Prime's name is Jetfire. The UK version has far more to just what the U.S. was given (even with Generation 2 and Regeneration One).
Which is my point - Even if the series is the same, a different continuity will be created for a different audience. Both Takara and Pioneer made that point with their sets... And the Dutch Marvel version had to do it because of copyright issues.
And trust me... When it comes to continuity, I can give you variations created by FUNimation, Viz Media, and other companies. Just remember that it is also why I prefer Kadokawa Shoten-based anime series and Transformers: All Spark when it comes to my monthly manga collecting.
e-HOBBY: Here is the story. http://www.e-hobbymagazine.com/category/english/exstoryen
Constructicon: The only Constructicon I know about are Steamhammer and the former Decepticon who changed sides because he was rejected - For not being green.
Now if you do not mind... I need to stop liking this series, on grounds that I am trying to reduce my "Year 2" buying. I have to get my pieces graded, move, and other costly things. Oh, and here is a semi-off-topic distraction: http://www.toyarchive.com/Transformers/Prototypes/Generation2/LongHaulTestShot.html
Posted by Sabrblade on November 28th, 2012 @ 10:03am CST
For one, Google Translate is never a word for word correct Japanese-to-English translation.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Information on Pioneer's version: http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Geneon_Universal_Entertainment
Translation for Transformers 2010, from Amazon Japan (LINK): "Limited Edition DVD-BOX was recorded 3 episodes of unaired TV series was broadcast in Japan, Transformers "U.S. version" is in addition to all 30 story! TV series finally appeared."
In other words - Both the LD and DVD are the same. And Amazon Japan confirms that the Pioneer set is a Japanese version of the U.S. series. And since it was dubbed in Japanese, and is based on the U.S. series, that makes it an untouched continuity... FREE OF KISS PLAYERS. (Kiss Players fans: )
The episodes on Pioneer's DVDs aren't redubs of the English version. They're same dubs as those on the Takara LD versions, with the only difference being the additional episodes not originally broadcast in Japan being included for completion's sake. Convoy is still Convoy, Cybertrons and Destrons remain the same, and the story of FSRLTF2010 is exactly as it was presented on Japanese television in 1986. Only the newly-added "The Rebirth" episodes use American names, but only for a select few characters since, again, Convoy is still Convoy and such.
Yeah, I get that the American and Japanese versions are different continuities, but Pioneer didn't create a new continuity when they threw in "The Rebirth" as a bonus. It's non-canon to the Japanese version.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Continuity: Comparing U.S. versions of the same product is like comparing red apples to Roman red apples. Continuity as a whole come in terms of variations depicted by a singular notion,and can spawn parallel continuities just by making a significant enough change. Takara did this by changing names and terminologies, adding clip episodes, removing The Rebirth, and adding extra series.
Just like when Sony threw in a silent version of Scramble City in their Transformers: The Movie DVD. It's a non-canon inclusion done for simple appeal only.
Can it not be seen as both? The Battlestars story pages make explicit callbacks to the events of The Headmasters cartoon. Not the manga, but the cartoon.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:So when it comes to Japanese animated G1 continuities... You have: 1985-1990 Takara, 1998/1999 Pioneer, and 2006/2007 TOMY. Take note that I am excluding the Zone manga and everything after that as it was made to promote the toyline... Not continue the animated series.
And I get that. But Pioneer didn't redub the series. The episodes on Pioneer's DVDs are presented exactly as they were in 1986, minus the missing clip chows, which I'm guessing are missing since Toei is notorious for snuffing companies like that.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:And for extra credit, you have... This. In the Dutch version of the continuity created by Marvel, Optimus Prime's name is Jetfire. The UK version has far more to just what the U.S. was given (even with Generation 2 and Regeneration One).
Which is my point - Even if the series is the same, a different continuity will be created for a different audience. Both Takara and Pioneer made that point with their sets... And the Dutch Marvel version had to do it because of copyright issues.
And trust me... When it comes to continuity, I can give you variations created by FUNimation, Viz Media, and other companies. Just remember that it is also why I prefer Kadokawa Shoten-based anime series and Transformers: All Spark when it comes to my monthly manga collecting.
Oh, THAT story. Right.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:e-HOBBY: Here is the story. http://www.e-hobbymagazine.com/category/english/exstoryen
But where do you get a "Classics Megatron" and "Powermaster Optimus Prime" from that?
The "Eighth Constructicon" comes from a bit of animation during the episode "Five Faces of Darkness, Part 4", in which we see Megatron being created by a group who greatly resembles the Constructicons, except that there are eight of them instead of six. The e-HOBBY redeco of Grapple, RoadHauler, would later be revealed as having possibly been the seventh, leaving the eighth one still a mystery. Some of us are proposing that Buildmaster could be this eighth one finally given an identity, which would be cool.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Constructicon: The only Constructicon I know about are Steamhammer and the former Decepticon who changed sides because he was rejected - For not being green.
Well, in my case, I'm quite enjoying this United EX story, but I'm not buying the toys. I might if I could, but I don't feel the need to at the moment. But I still like the story.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Now if you do not mind... I need to stop liking this series, on grounds that I am trying to reduce my "Year 2" buying. I have to get my pieces graded, move, and other costly things.
Purdy.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Oh, and here is a semi-off-topic distraction: http://www.toyarchive.com/Transformers/Prototypes/Generation2/LongHaulTestShot.html
Posted by KNM2012 on November 28th, 2012 @ 4:56pm CST
Sunbow's chronology is based on 98 episodes. Takara's chronology, before Headmasters, is based on 102-106 episodes and does not follow the same order as Sunbow's. Pioneer's chronology is based on Sunbow's, but replaced the two missing episodes with the TV special and OVA. Your claims dictate differently, which would have them put out a total of 100 episodes among the three sets. So when it comes to the Amazon Japan description of Pioneer's set, I also used two apps I downloaded... As well as Excite, Livedoor, Bing, Nifty, Babylon and Dictionary.com in hopes to find anything that is a repeating factor.
Namely... "Transformers "version of the United States", which aired in Japan TV series finally appeared!"
I cannot speak for the others... But I at the very least want the version of you that will jump in and help those who need information. The version of you that makes topics fun, at least when you talk to Pryme and Jelze. I don't want to have another 4 hours of my birthday wasted, and find myself spending a portion of that day and beyond hoping that Seibertron does not have a more negative view of me. And even then, I tried to find a middle ground between you and another member who brought this up. So please do not respond. Let this argument die and dwell on the fact that you have a reputation of dismissing things you say and others say in favor of being right.
So yeah... I will not block you because I know I will be missing out on a few fun times with you. However, I am now on the ropes and have to either ignore every topic you respond to... Consider quitting a second time just to spare me from having any anxiety that will result in me quitting... Or just hope that you will realize that you are dismissing a HUGE chunk of who I am because you have this "reputation" of being right. Hence why I am asking to stop, as I am doing just that, and dwell on how you are being perceived whenever you respond this way. (And this is a guy who, being diagnosed with Aspergers, is recommending... And does.)
Up to you. Because the me who rejoined this site wanted to have fun, not be insulted or be treated as an inferior - No matter what the case may be. And FYI: This is the exact reason why I said that I wanted to have a one-on-one conversation with HYDRA. The end here, and thank you for another "fun" time on these kind of topics.
Posted by craggy on November 28th, 2012 @ 6:15pm CST
Posted by Sabrblade on November 29th, 2012 @ 12:15am CST
When? Which line of mine insulted you?KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Let me simplify this, Sabr, as you insulted me while trying to be right.
What does Toei's history have to do with this?KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:You disregarded Toei's history when it comes to western companies. And this includes non-Transformers related companies like FUNimation.
Even though Pioneer didn't change the story with their release?KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:You disregarded the fact that continuity is based on changes that have a long-standing effect on how the story is handled.
Your laptop issues are your own. What relevance do they have to the Transformers topic?KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:You disregarded the fact I am having issues with my laptop
Again, when?KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:while trying to make me sound like a fool in public.
From what you told me, it sounded like you were saying that Pioneer redid the cartoon with their releases. If you were not saying that they redid the series, then I was mistaken.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:You say I am this kind of guy, but you contradict it in your pursuit of being right. Something that has me spot holes in your "facts."
Though, there ARE some things I WAS WRONG about. I though that Takara had released the clip shows on their LDs, when it looks like they didn't. I also thought Takara hadn't released the five missing episodes on their LDs, when it seems that they did as well. My mistake on these two accounts.
Yes.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Sunbow's chronology is based on 98 episodes.
Yes, though, Takara's LDs didn't have the clip shows.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Takara's chronology, before Headmasters, is based on 102-106 episodes and does not follow the same order as Sunbow's.
Pioneer maintained the Japanese episode order that Takara did. Both have the episodes ordered as their were originally broadcasted in Japan.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Pioneer's chronology is based on Sunbow's, but replaced the two missing episodes with the TV special and OVA.
Though, Takara also included both Scramble City and "Exciting Transformer" in their releases, according to this page - http://tfwiki.net/wiki/TakaraTomy#Home_video
Having checked over things, I see now that Pioneer did sets of episodes 1-35, 36-63 + the 2 missing episodes, and 1-30 of 2010 + The Rebirth. 63 + 2 + 30 + 3 = 98.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Your claims dictate differently, which would have them put out a total of 100 episodes among the three sets.
And that Takara did sets of 1-35, 36-63 + the 2 missing episodes, and 1-30 of 2010. 35 + 28 + 2 + 30 = 95. Same count as Pioneer minus The Rebirth.
I'm looking into what this description is trying to say, and by breaking apart the individual phrases to make the message more coherent, it looks as though, by "U.S. version", they mean the cartoon itself originating from the U.S., with it being an American cartoon dubbed into Japanese The episodes themselves are unaltered from their original Japanese dubs in 1986. If they were, this would have been made well known all over with the main Transformers websites spelling it out.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:So when it comes to the Amazon Japan description of Pioneer's set, I also used two apps I downloaded... As well as Excite, Livedoor, Bing, Nifty, Babylon and Dictionary.com in hopes to find anything that is a repeating factor.
Namely... "Transformers "version of the United States", which aired in Japan TV series finally appeared!"
Basically, the Amazon Japan is stating this:
"The American Transformers cartoon aired by Nippon Television is finally here. Included with all 30 TV episodes are three unaired episodes. Limited edition DVD-BOX."
That is a translation that both makes sense in English and sticks true to the message of the Japanese language description, whereas Google Translate felt more (pardon the pun) robotic in its translation.
That's what I'm trying to do here. I'm trying to help you see that Pioneer's episodes are just like Takara's episodes, same audio track and episode order and all.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:I cannot speak for the others... But I at the very least want the version of you that will jump in and help those who need information. The version of you that makes topics fun, at least when you talk to Pryme and Jelze.
Happy Birthday.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:I don't want to have another 4 hours of my birthday wasted, and find myself spending a portion of that day and beyond hoping that Seibertron does not have a more negative view of me.
I'm not trying to dismiss you. That's why I asked for where you were coming from this. But I aside from the Amazon Japan description, I don't know where one would come to think that Pioneer's episodes are different from Takara's when there hasn't been such an announcement made yet. Something like that is big news and worthy of being incorporated into the TFWiki, yet there's no mention of a second dub or episode reordering anywhere on that site.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:And even then, I tried to find a middle ground between you and another member who brought this up. So please do not respond. Let this argument die and dwell on the fact that you have a reputation of dismissing things you say and others say in favor of being right.
And I you. You're a smart guy with some interesting ideas.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:So yeah... I will not block you because I know I will be missing out on a few fun times with you.
I just wrote above that I was WRONG about some things. I have openly spelled out in the past that I am not perfect and am just as prone to error as anyone. I am human, I make mistakes and failures just the same as anyone.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:However, I am now on the ropes and have to either ignore every topic you respond to... Consider quitting a second time just to spare me from having any anxiety that will result in me quitting... Or just hope that you will realize that you are dismissing a HUGE chunk of who I am because you have this "reputation" of being right.
You and I are more alike than you realize. I have Aspergers Syndrome as well.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Hence why I am asking to stop, as I am doing just that, and dwell on how you are being perceived whenever you respond this way. (And this is a guy who, being diagnosed with Aspergers, is recommending... And does.)
I have never once tried to insult you. If something was taken the wrong way, then I apologize. But I don't see you as an inferior.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Up to you. Because the me who rejoined this site wanted to have fun, not be insulted or be treated as an inferior - No matter what the case may be.
I showed you where you could do that. Go to Allspark.com and talk with him. He's there. You can speak to him there.KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:And FYI: This is the exact reason why I said that I wanted to have a one-on-one conversation with HYDRA. The end here, and thank you for another "fun" time on these kind of topics.
Posted by Burn on November 29th, 2012 @ 3:06am CST
So here's your choices, take your personal issues to pm land and sort it out between you both and get this thread back on topic.
Oh wait, that appears to only be one option. Deal with it or I'll have to. I'd rather not have to deal with the complaints about you two.