Takara Tomy Attempting to Ban Third Party Items in Japan?

ShardFenix wrote:iGear does push the envelope with some of what they produce I think. The seekers and coneheads may have been a bit far.

ShardFenix wrote:I think a lot of this has to do with some of the companies and not all. Fansproject is noticeably missing from the list and I wonder why. Im glad they arent though. Interestingly though only the camera set from Perfect Effect is listed. Nothing from MMC either. iGear does push the envelope with some of what they produce I think. The seekers and coneheads may have been a bit far. Crazydevy, well maybe this will lower their prices?

Dead Metal wrote:

ShardFenix wrote:I think a lot of this has to do with some of the companies and not all. Fansproject is noticeably missing from the list and I wonder why. Im glad they arent though. Interestingly though only the camera set from Perfect Effect is listed. Nothing from MMC either. iGear does push the envelope with some of what they produce I think. The seekers and coneheads may have been a bit far. Crazydevy, well maybe this will lower their prices?

FansProject stuff isn't on this list due to not resembling official designs enough, they just hsare a passing resemblance and do not use actual trademarks.

I guess the Kup head is on this list for the use of Kup in the product name, while Blood uses the same mold for the swords as the original figure. I still hope that comes out though.

kirbenvost wrote:Ah, crap. I hope this doesn't end up affecting North American retailers.

Counterpunch wrote:Good luck Takara, you're going to need it.

...

You see, I'm being dismissive of this ridiculous notion that they can do anything about this and more over, that it is worth their time to do so.

Rated X wrote:Takara, if you want to compete with the 3rd party market, step up your game and give the fans what they ask for. Leave the 3rd party companies with nothing to make. And that's the bottom line because Rated X said so...

Rated X wrote:Thats a fine way to help boost the economy in a time of need in Japan. (sarcasm) It's also an easy way to get on every collectors s**tlist. And unlike the USA, in Japan the primary market for Transformers is collectors. So there will be many unhappy folks. You are also just sending more business to China. You may be able to stop dealers from setting up shop in Japan, but you cant stop the mail.

Takara, if you want to compete with the 3rd party market, step up your game and give the fans what they ask for. Leave the 3rd party companies with nothing to make. And that's the bottom line because Rated X said so...

Blurrz wrote:
This is a blatant assumption but I highly doubt that third party toys are a 'big hit' other than FansProject in Japan. There's a certain angst towards Knock Off or unofficial toys. It's a big thing with Gundam and other kits, and I think it goes hand in hand with Transformers products too.

And they aren't going to send more business to China, seeing as every single third party sans Renderform and Corbot V, who aren't really third parties, originate from China. Popularity in one country isn't going to increase because another country no longer has third party product.

Takara, compete? Buddy, what would rather have? United Frenzy/Rumble, the e-Hobby 3-Pack sets, and Masterpiece Hot Rod or..... iGear Head Upgrades, a transforming camera made up of 3 small figures, and CrappyDevy upgrades. A retailer's sales are probably 20x fold for Takara compared to the add-on guys.

Takara doesn't need to change their line-up to shut down third parties. They should just get in there and shut down 'some' third parties. As a collector of all things, I believe 3rd party stuff is garbage, unless it's made by FansProject, HR, MMC and to an extent, Perfect Effect. And really, if they all go under, I could honestly not care at all. It's a shame that some companies had to shit the bed and make the rest of the good ones look bad. Like honestly, I still can't believe Impossible Toys' Arcee mold was actually capable of being sold. That thing is a piece of garbage and the price tag of $60+ is a bloody joke. I can't believe i-Gear hasn't been stomped on for their complete and utter copy-cat attitude towards not only Hasbro and Takara products, but for custom ideas from other members of the TF community without their general authorization.

Look, I doubt that any more action will be taken from HasTak, as their own product sales are enhanced by the mutuality that exists from 3rd party products created. But at the same time.. I wouldn't mind seeing some third parties go under. Their products are a terrible miss, and they charge way too much. It's an addiction that just needs to go away..

amcgrath929 wrote:Looks to me like Red Mercury just threw together a random list when they cancelled pre-orders. IMO, it's a little dumb for TT to go after online retailers selling 3rd party prodects before they go after companies like KOToys.

El Duque wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:Good luck Takara, you're going to need it.

...

You see, I'm being dismissive of this ridiculous notion that they can do anything about this and more over, that it is worth their time to do so.

Agreed. When they compare what profits they are losing (if any) to how much it would cost to really do anything about these guys the whole thing falls apart. Spend millions to save thousands, not likely.

Blurrz wrote:Like honestly, I still can't believe Impossible Toys' Arcee mold was actually capable of being sold. That thing is a piece of garbage and the price tag of $60+ is a bloody joke.

Jesterhead wrote:

Blurrz wrote:Like honestly, I still can't believe Impossible Toys' Arcee mold was actually capable of being sold. That thing is a piece of garbage and the price tag of $60+ is a bloody joke.

I couldn't agree with this anymore. It looks like hell, and is a ridiculous price point. I can't help but think that if Has\Tak made it, it would ring in as the worst figure of the year.

T-Macksimus wrote:They don't have to spend a dime outside of what they are paying the person to type up and e-mail the intimidation letters. They are approaching this problem of theirs from a long-term, military campaign point-of-view and I have to say that while it may not ultimately get the results that they ideally want it is still a very smart approach to dealing with the problem. Minimal cost and effort on their part and let the opponent slowly damage itself along the way. By going for the retailers instead of the manufacturers they create a situation where they can monopolize an outlet and leave the 3rd party MFG's to slowly wither and disappear. It's worked quite well for companies like Microsoft and Verizon and once Hasbro is forced to join in on the same tactic domestically (and they will be) then it will prove brutally effective for Has/Tak down the road too.

venomfrlife wrote:here's my question... ko transformers are everywhere from e-bay to flee markets to pre made Easter baskets in most retail stores, they come from different manufactures mostly found in Japan & surrounding countries ...Do you think this will signal the end of KO transformers?

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Not by a long shot. TakaraTomy is specifically targeting the stores...

Jesterhead wrote:Strange they are banning them at the retail level, and not the manufacturers.

Seibertron wrote:

Jesterhead wrote:Strange they are banning them at the retail level, and not the manufacturers.

If you stop it at the retail level, it makes it very difficult/challenging to obtain these items, which puts a financial strain on the "manufacturers", and saves on the near impossible legal problems that would be faced with going after 3rd party manufacturers in China.

amcgrath929 wrote:So, tell me how you really feel..

Counterpunch wrote:
We'll see in time. For now, I have my doubts and they are Legion, for they are many.

Dead Metal wrote:

ShardFenix wrote:I think a lot of this has to do with some of the companies and not all. Fansproject is noticeably missing from the list and I wonder why. Im glad they arent though. Interestingly though only the camera set from Perfect Effect is listed. Nothing from MMC either. iGear does push the envelope with some of what they produce I think. The seekers and coneheads may have been a bit far. Crazydevy, well maybe this will lower their prices?

FansProject stuff isn't on this list due to not resembling official designs enough, they just hsare a passing resemblance and do not use actual trademarks.

I guess the Kup head is on this list for the use of Kup in the product name, while Blood uses the same mold for the swords as the original figure. I still hope that comes out though.

El Duque wrote:So what's to stop the 3P's from just selling directly to their customers? iGear and CrazyDevy already do.

Blurrz wrote:

Rated X wrote:Thats a fine way to help boost the economy in a time of need in Japan. (sarcasm) It's also an easy way to get on every collectors s**tlist. And unlike the USA, in Japan the primary market for Transformers is collectors. So there will be many unhappy folks. You are also just sending more business to China. You may be able to stop dealers from setting up shop in Japan, but you cant stop the mail.

Takara, if you want to compete with the 3rd party market, step up your game and give the fans what they ask for. Leave the 3rd party companies with nothing to make. And that's the bottom line because Rated X said so...

This is a blatant assumption but I highly doubt that third party toys are a 'big hit' other than FansProject in Japan. There's a certain angst towards Knock Off or unofficial toys. It's a big thing with Gundam and other kits, and I think it goes hand in hand with Transformers products too.

And they aren't going to send more business to China, seeing as every single third party sans Renderform and Corbot V, who aren't really third parties, originate from China. Popularity in one country isn't going to increase because another country no longer has third party product.

Takara, compete? Buddy, what would rather have? United Frenzy/Rumble, the e-Hobby 3-Pack sets, and Masterpiece Hot Rod or..... iGear Head Upgrades, a transforming camera made up of 3 small figures, and CrappyDevy upgrades. A retailer's sales are probably 20x fold for Takara compared to the add-on guys.

Takara doesn't need to change their line-up to shut down third parties. They should just get in there and shut down 'some' third parties. As a collector of all things, I believe 3rd party stuff is garbage, unless it's made by FansProject, HR, MMC and to an extent, Perfect Effect. And really, if they all go under, I could honestly not care at all. It's a shame that some companies had to shit the bed and make the rest of the good ones look bad. Like honestly, I still can't believe Impossible Toys' Arcee mold was actually capable of being sold. That thing is a piece of garbage and the price tag of $60+ is a bloody joke. I can't believe i-Gear hasn't been stomped on for their complete and utter copy-cat attitude towards not only Hasbro and Takara products, but for custom ideas from other members of the TF community without their general authorization.

Look, I doubt that any more action will be taken from HasTak, as their own product sales are enhanced by the mutuality that exists from 3rd party products created. But at the same time.. I wouldn't mind seeing some third parties go under. Their products are a terrible miss, and they charge way too much. It's an addiction that just needs to go away..

Jesterhead wrote:

Seibertron wrote:

Jesterhead wrote:Strange they are banning them at the retail level, and not the manufacturers.

If you stop it at the retail level, it makes it very difficult/challenging to obtain these items, which puts a financial strain on the "manufacturers", and saves on the near impossible legal problems that would be faced with going after 3rd party manufacturers in China.

True, but what responsibility do the individual retailers have concerning 3rd party products? Who is Takara to tell them what they can and what they cannot sell?

So I guess my question is: Is it legally dubious to re-sell a product that infringes on IP?

Rated X wrote:Damn…

I loved the Impossible Toys Arcee and Medic. Bought them both and are very happy. I love Fansproject, Perfect Effect, and Head Robots as well. And my favorite company is KO Toys. Those guys are gods in my book. They flush the drama down the toilet and make it happen !!! For what they are working with in terms of money and materials, you should give 3rd party companies a little more credit. I mean some collectors are freakin quality control nuts and should get a job as inspectors. Me personally, I am just happy to have the most G1 representation of each character available. To this day, I haven’t attempted to transform my Fansproject Springer (Defender to all you copyright worry-warts) I just put them on a shelf, get drunk and enjoy their beauty. Now don’t get me wrong, I love a lot of the Has/Tak stuff. But there are plenty of holes to fill in the ranks of their line-up. And somebody’s gotta fill them. Granted, they are eating off of Has/Tak’s plate, but that’s just how it goes. Maybe if they spent more time on putting out the missing links and less time trying to be innovative with Mighty Muggs, PCC’s and Robot Heroes, they wouldn’t have this problem now. When you have an itch, you scratch it, right ??? So it is obvious that these little companies got the big boys attention. Maybe they should hire the best of them, team them all up and create a Takara Collector’s Division kind of like a Micro Brew beer of the month club. But nope…they want to shut them down because they don’t like being outshined. This isn’t about profits. This is about making a statement. Takara is basically saying they want to be the only player in the game. It don’t work that way. Lebron cant win alone. Wade gotta hit a few shots.Bosh gotta hit a few shots. Maybe all the companies that make transformable robots can never work as a team, but their figures that sit on my shelf make a great team together side by side.

Rated X wrote:Takara is basically saying they want to be the only player in the game. It don’t work that way. Lebron cant win alone. Wade gotta hit a few shots.Bosh gotta hit a few shots. Maybe all the companies that make transformable robots can never work as a team, but their figures that sit on my shelf make a great team together side by side.

Blurrz wrote:

amcgrath929 wrote:So, tell me how you really feel..

Honestly Alex... I really don't know. I'm a fan of vintage toys, but at the same time, I hate to see good products from FP, and other third parties, get blacklisted because the rest of the group ruined it for them. I know more than half of the Seibertron staff loves these toys, and so does more than half of the fandom. It's like how we all had to conform to the rules of Airport Security because a small group of people decided to enact 9/11. Sure, it's not exactly the best comparison seeing as Airport Security is actually a good thing... but yeah, you know what I mean. I wish third parties the best, but the ones who are borderline KOs or decided to melt strawberry baskets and decided to use that plastic to make toys.. then, good riddance.

Seibertron wrote:That is exactly what they're saying. They have every right to say that they want to be the only player in the game with these products because it's their intellectual property that they created. They have an right to protect their brand, their products and their intellectual ideas. These 3rd party companies aren't making generic transforming robot toys. They're making products that directly homage the characters Hasbro and Takara Tomy own/create/make. We wouldn't have as great of an interest in these 3rd party products if they didn't resemble Transformers characters.

If Hasbro doesn't want to make a Springer figure in the Classics style to fill a "whole in our collection(s)", then that's up to them to decide which products they want to bring to the market. It should not be up to 3rd party companies to determine which characters should be brought to the market.

MINDVVIPE wrote:I think it's stupid to say hastek and only hastek has the right to make, say, an arcee thats actually good.

Burn wrote:

MINDVVIPE wrote:I think it's stupid to say hastek and only hastek has the right to make, say, an arcee thats actually good.

Actually they do. They're the ones who created the likeness of Arcee. Intellectual Property, they have every right to do it.

Given the economic situation around the world (not to mention recent events in Japan) I would imagine TT are just trying to protect their property, and thus their income, as much as possible.

MINDVVIPE wrote:What we need to do as fans is demand and go where our money is worth the product.

Burn wrote:

MINDVVIPE wrote:What we need to do as fans is demand and go where our money is worth the product.

See, I disagree with this statement for a couple of reasons (none of which are meant to be disrespectful I might add).

For starters, we don't have a right to demand anything. We're fans yes, but as has been said many times over the years, Transformers are made for kids. Collectors like us are a small base, and really, in the last few years they've done a pretty good job of trying to cater for us.

Secondly, I guess i'm just a "company man" in that I don't support third party manufacturers nor do I want any of their stuff in my collection (though I do have a Universe Superion upgrade sitting here I intend to sell off). That's just a personal preference, I know a lot of other people think differently, they want the "hole filled in their collection", but personally, that hole should be filled by HasTak and HasTak only. If it isn't, well ... there's 25 years of figures to collect.

Again, personal opinion on the matter, that's just how I look at it. So here's hoping TT (and maybe Hasbro eventually) do a good job of protecting their IP while also trying to give more for the collectors.

MINDVVIPE wrote:I agree with you (except I don't care about it being not Hastek to be in my collection), because you misunderstood what I meant about demanding. I don't mean writing letters to Hastek complaining theres no 3 mode Springer, hehe. I simply meant, with the general fan "DEMAND" for a good springer, out came a 3rd party Springer.

Blackstreak wrote:Aw, are the big-wig companies getting ass-hurt over 3rd party customs? Then maybe they should produce better stuff.