SDCC 2015 - Fan Built Combiner "Victorion" Reveal Video

Yikes. I think they coulda done better than that. I'm not impressed in the least. The new combiner head sculpt and the sword are the only things even remotely interesting to me from this release.
Those new hands and feet have peeked my interest aswell to be honest.

Will TT go for her? I know that they released windblade but victorion doesn't seem to fit in their unite warriors line ideals.

Again, I do wish we could of voted for how the colours would of been applied but I'll take her still

I can't find the right words to convey my feelings on this monstrosity, I'll just leave it at this: I'm saddened by this, a great deal so.

Autobot032 wrote:I can't find the right words to convey my feelings on this monstrosity, I'll just leave it at this: I'm saddened by this, a great deal so.

Ugly as it is or the most part, I gotta day that headsculpt for the combined mold is pretty rad. I really like it. It's just those colors on it. Damn.

RhA wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:I can't find the right words to convey my feelings on this monstrosity, I'll just leave it at this: I'm saddened by this, a great deal so.

Ugly as it is or the most part, I gotta day that headsculpt for the combined mold is pretty rad. I really like it. It's just those colors on it. Damn.

I think the head, hands, feet and weaponry are fantastic, I think the rest is a waste.

I'm a big collector of fembots. I get every one that's made and easily accessible, even if I don't watch the media (i.e. Strongarm in RID). That being said, I'm no longer 100% sure I'll pick her up. I'm ALL for a fembot team that forms a combiner. I just wish the color palette had more variety to it. As is, those colors that are used are far too saturated to make it a must-have toy. They're almost G2 in their garish shades. If they'd been toned down some, maybe a third color (silver, black, ivory, white) added as accents or bot leg colors, I'd feel a lot better about it. Rust Dust (whoever came up with THAT name....just...no) is a perfect example of how it could have worked better. She's got a significant amount of black in her robot mode and it breaks up the other two colors nicely. I realize some of the reason the red and teal look so garish is because of how the "official" photos make them appear brighter colored. It's like with CW Brawl. He looked greener in official pictures than his toy ended up being. I'm hoping the same happens with these ladies. A more muted red and teal would be welcome.

I really WANT to like Victorion. I do. But the overly unified team colors are just too much, as they currently appear. I hope they're fixed by the time she comes out next spring, or I may have to pass on a fembot figure for the first time.

Moosey wrote:

shajaki wrote:

Burn wrote:I don't see "females", I see robots.
That being said, individually, not too fussed on them. But combined? I quite like the combined mode.

I'm agreeing with you a lot today Burn
Individually its kind of a fail for me. Combined though... I'm really diggin it.

I agree with burn. I mean, I just find it ridiculous that some people must insist on their figures looking like supermodels... I mean, do you want your Optimus to have a super accurate male physique with sculpted muscles???

Sucking up to me will only work if you admit I'm prettier than Va'al.

Bounti76 wrote:But the overly unified team colors are just too much, as they currently appear. I hope they're fixed by the time she comes out next spring, or I may have to pass on a fembot figure for the first time.

I WANT A DISCUSSION ON THIS!
(as in with other people too)

Looking at the combined mode this morning I got to thinking about unified team colours, the scramble combiners have never been unified, are we subconsciously rejecting these colours because we're not use to unified scramble combiner colours?

I personally am a stickler for symmetry so that's probably why I don't have too much of a problem with the colours in combined mode.

Still think the individual figures are just pure lazy though.

Burn wrote:Looking at the combined mode this morning I got to thinking about unified team colours, the scramble combiners have never been unified, are we subconsciously rejecting these colours because we're not use to unified scramble combiner colours?

I think this is very much a part of the issue with Victorion. Mismatched coloring on different parts is something that not only are we used to with Transformers combiners, but something we come to expect from any iteration of the combining several robots into a giant warrior idea (see Power Rangers, Voltron, etc.) Another question along these lines might be, why do we accept Devastator or Predaking with their unified team colors for their individual members? They seem to be exceptions to the rule, but they're both celebrated. No one calls them out on having a "symmetrical" deco for all members. Bright red and teal just don't mesh well, unlike Devastator's green and purple or Predaking's orange and black motifs.

Interesting thought, looking at the seacons their colours are reasonably unified to an extent, drawing on the same palettes. Same with Predaking.

Still a bunch of straight repaints. I wonder if there will be any retooling? Also, will this be sold as a set? Finally, Takara or Hasbro?

Wolfman Jake wrote:[Why do we accept Devastator or Predaking with their unified team colors for their individual members? They seem to be exceptions to the rule, but they're both celebrated. No one calls them out on having a "symmetrical" deco for all members. Bright red and teal just don't mesh well, unlike Devastator's green and purple or Predaking's orange and black motifs.

We didn't question it because that's just how it was. We were kids, they were robots that combined into a bigger robot, I for one wouldn't have cared about the colours back then.

So we've grown up accepting that Predaking and Devestator have a somewhat uniform colour scheme, while the Scramble guys don't.

We didn't really object to the crazy colours of G2, 'cause you know, TRANSFORMING ROBOTS!

But now, we're all a little bit older, our tastes have "matured" and along comes Victorion with her scramble city style combination but with a uniform colour scheme! I wonder if people may be rejecting the colours on a subconscious level because of what a lot of us grew up with.

-Kanrabat- wrote:Still a bunch of straight repaints. I wonder if there will be any retooling? Also, will this be sold as a set? Finally, Takara or Hasbro?

There's a bunch of retooling going on here, heads, arms, chests and new combined feet (with ankle pivot) and hands

ZeroWolf wrote:There's a bunch of retooling going on here, heads, arms, chests

So ... she's had a bit of plastic surgery then ...
I'm so going to hell for that.

Burn wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:There's a bunch of retooling going on here, heads, arms, chests

So ... she's had a bit of plastic surgery then ...
I'm so going to hell for that.

D'oooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhh.....

libleat wrote:Longtime lurker on the site, de-lurking to say that this combiner is good for two reasons:

1. The commentary on this combiner lets me know who is an inflammatory hateful bigot against trans people (including myself), as it's perfectly within reason to critique this toy in a manner that is not transphobic or cis-normative (no, not "all women" have curves, sorry, especially alien women ).

2. The commentary on this combiner allows all other decent people to look at those transphobic comments and know exactly the calibre of people they are dealing with.

I am deeply disappointed with the fanbase whose interest in robot puzzle toys I have shared for some years now, but I'm glad to see the mods are taking some action to curb the worst of the commentary.

^^^^^THIS. 'Bout time someone finally said it.

Gonna wait to see production images of these gals, as it's hard to judge them on half hearted painted knock ups. As that amended photo shows, there is potential, although I have to agree with others, that I think there is far too much red in this scheme.

Sabrblade wrote::shock: Guys...

Guys...

Something awesome this way comes.

Remember this teaser for Victorion?


Look closely at the Groove mold component on her chest.

See the little bits of Cybertronian text on there? That's "Ancient Autobot".

On her left (our right) reads "far away", and on her right (our left) reads "never roam".

What do these words mean? Well, here's the full quote they come from:

"If Cybertron be your home, far away never roam. Hear my message, listen and fear. Danger comes, the end is near! Just like us, you soon will rust. All shall be turned to dust."

And here's where this quote comes from:


The G1 episode "Cosmic Rust".

Why is this relevant? Victorion hails from the Sea of RUST!

Plus, her sword's hilt is totally beetle-esque, like the Lightning Bug:

That is an awesome find and throwback. Love it.

Burn wrote:

Moosey wrote:

shajaki wrote:

Burn wrote:I don't see "females", I see robots.
That being said, individually, not too fussed on them. But combined? I quite like the combined mode.

I'm agreeing with you a lot today Burn
Individually its kind of a fail for me. Combined though... I'm really diggin it.

I agree with burn. I mean, I just find it ridiculous that some people must insist on their figures looking like supermodels... I mean, do you want your Optimus to have a super accurate male physique with sculpted muscles???

Sucking up to me will only work if you admit I'm prettier than Va'al.

..but.. you *are* prettier!

Moosey wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:This monstrosity reminds me why I took an extended break from the collecting hobby not so long ago. I hope very few people trade perfectly good money for this. It only in incourages more crappy repaints.


ah well.

Sorry to call you out on this, but why must you wish that everyone does not buy Victorion? I can understand that you do not wish to buy the set, but why do you have to wish that no one buys it?

I have this dream that if repaints have abismal sales, Hasbro will loose their hard-on for them, and we start getting more than 10 unique figures a year.

So I was reading the thread from the beginning and stumbled upon this.

Sabrblade wrote:

Alpha Weltall wrote:If I only have the current figures to choose from,

You don't. This is going to create brand new toys of brand new characters, like how it was for Windblade.

Shouldn't make assumptions, Sabr.

-Kanrabat- wrote:Still a bunch of straight repaints. I wonder if there will be any retooling? Also, will this be sold as a set? Finally, Takara or Hasbro?

Only Hasbro for now. Dont know if Takara will try this guy out. But theya re doing the Optimus Combiner, so they have shown to stray from G1 for this line.

And it will be sold as a set, just like the G2 combiner sets.

Burn wrote:

Wolfman Jake wrote:[Why do we accept Devastator or Predaking with their unified team colors for their individual members? They seem to be exceptions to the rule, but they're both celebrated. No one calls them out on having a "symmetrical" deco for all members. Bright red and teal just don't mesh well, unlike Devastator's green and purple or Predaking's orange and black motifs.

We didn't question it because that's just how it was. We were kids, they were robots that combined into a bigger robot, I for one wouldn't have cared about the colours back then.

So we've grown up accepting that Predaking and Devestator have a somewhat uniform colour scheme, while the Scramble guys don't.

There is another angle to this though. The Scramble guys Scramble. That was kind of the point. So of course, mixing and matching would result in odd schemes anyway. Predaking and Devastator didnt combine with anyone else, so all their components were meant for them and them alone. So it makes sense that they would look more uniform.

And guys, one thing I am missing here is where the white is on this combiner.

Check out the color that won on the poll, the white should be as prevalent as the red. So what's going on here, how is red all over this ala Harley Quinn?!

Ironhidensh wrote:

Moosey wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:This monstrosity reminds me why I took an extended break from the collecting hobby not so long ago. I hope very few people trade perfectly good money for this. It only in incourages more crappy repaints.


ah well.

Sorry to call you out on this, but why must you wish that everyone does not buy Victorion? I can understand that you do not wish to buy the set, but why do you have to wish that no one buys it?

I have this dream that if repaints have abismal sales, Hasbro will loose their hard-on for them, and we start getting more than 10 unique figures a year.

After getting Streetwise, I didnt mind the reshells as much. Especially when that is essentially G1 reborn where everyone transformed similarly but had a totally different looking alt mode. And while I would preffer unique figures, I dread the day Hasbro decides to go back to the FOC plastic to offset the cost. Or even the more recent generations like Scoop, which felt really cheap to me. I look on the bright side. I dont have to buy all the figures and the figures I do buy are of great quality. With FOC, whichever figure I bought felt cheap while now every figure I buy feels nice and solid. And the deluxes and voyager are no longer shrinking.

Can't say I'm really a fan of these gals right now. Maybe it's just the colors, but something about her is really throwing me off from this set.

Sabrblade wrote::shock: Guys...

Guys...

Something awesome this way comes.

Remember this teaser for Victorion?


Look closely at the Groove mold component on her chest.

See the little bits of Cybertronian text on there? That's "Ancient Autobot".

On her left (our right) reads "far away", and on her right (our left) reads "never roam".

What do these words mean? Well, here's the full quote they come from:

"If Cybertron be your home, far away never roam. Hear my message, listen and fear. Danger comes, the end is near! Just like us, you soon will rust. All shall be turned to dust."

And here's where this quote comes from:


The G1 episode "Cosmic Rust".

Why is this relevant? Victorion hails from the Sea of RUST!

Plus, her sword's hilt is totally beetle-esque, like the Lightning Bug:

Well now...

This is delightful!

Excellent find.

Maxine Prime wrote:

libleat wrote:Longtime lurker on the site, de-lurking to say that this combiner is good for two reasons:

1. The commentary on this combiner lets me know who is an inflammatory hateful bigot against trans people (including myself), as it's perfectly within reason to critique this toy in a manner that is not transphobic or cis-normative (no, not "all women" have curves, sorry, especially alien women ).

2. The commentary on this combiner allows all other decent people to look at those transphobic comments and know exactly the calibre of people they are dealing with.

I am deeply disappointed with the fanbase whose interest in robot puzzle toys I have shared for some years now, but I'm glad to see the mods are taking some action to curb the worst of the commentary.

^^^^^THIS. 'Bout time someone finally said it.

Hear, hear!

There needs to be way more positivity around here. No, you don't need to love everything, but that also doesn't mean you need to crap all over stuff that other members of the community happen to like. Everyone likes different stuff, and that's what has resulted in us having such a varied franchise that went from G1 to Beast Wars to anime-style to live action movies, and more.

And I agree that it's high time that we do away with crass comparisons that do nothing but insult people based on personal or physical traits. Don't like the colors or shape? Fine, say so and leave out the nasty comparisons to people who are different from what you consider the 'ideal'.

Show more love, spew less hate. We'll all be happier.

For one, I'm quite happy with the molds and character designs of the individual bots.

For another, I think the combined mode is quite well done. I love the head sculpt and the general feel of this gestalt's form.

Anyone getting all preachy about what fembots should look like is really being short sighted. While fembots have tended in the past to have traditionally hourglass body styles, this isn't always the case. What's more narrow-minded comments that lock a female into one body type or another really do nothing to advance us as a fandom.

Lastly, if you don't like the color palette, that's fine. If you can't understand that painted prototypes are a poor representation of what final product will look like, then you've either not seen this type of thing before and should listen; or you're just dense.

Like so many other time in this fandom, what is decried one month will be double priced on eBay next year when people finally come around and stop being outraged first and carefully considered second.

Ironhidensh wrote:

Moosey wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:This monstrosity reminds me why I took an extended break from the collecting hobby not so long ago. I hope very few people trade perfectly good money for this. It only in incourages more crappy repaints.


ah well.

Sorry to call you out on this, but why must you wish that everyone does not buy Victorion? I can understand that you do not wish to buy the set, but why do you have to wish that no one buys it?

I have this dream that if repaints have abismal sales, Hasbro will loose their hard-on for them, and we start getting more than 10 unique figures a year.

But costs will have to be cut to afford that across all the tf lines, repaints and re tools have their purpose and if we get more toys that we can choose to buy or not then fantastic

On a separate note I would love to work in hasbro to see the sales reports for each of the tf ranges. Would be quite interesting to see that side of things and then find out how much money they give to producing those ranges

I understand everyone's disappointment. The molds are unoriginal and the color scheme doesn't make your eyes pop. But what I feel that really matters is the story, and if the comic bits that we saw in the video are any indication, this is going to be the most fun personalities we ever see in a combiner team ever.

Whoa! That Victorion was not what I expected! It looks bland.

Glad to see the "Comic Rust" reference is both making rounds and taking people's interest.

Good to see people have calmed down, but yeah Sabr, good call!

I just came into this thread. I'm glad I avoided the drama. Sure, I WOULD have liked a "hot femme fatale" Ghestalt. Mainly to see how it could be done. Seeing an original character made only out of repaints would be greatly dissapointing. I just hope the retoolings will be significant enough to show some "tough mamas" à-la RID Strongarm rather than standard bots in fabulous colors.

As for the colors, it look puke-ugly as for now.

Stiiiiiiiill......

The detailed HD images of the individual bots and the combiner are yet to come. Only then will Final Jugement be made.

I think I'll be more into these gals when I see the final versions that don't look like they've been ameturishly hand painted.

william-james88 wrote:Check out the color that won on the poll, the white should be as prevalent as the red. So what's going on here, how is red all over this ala Harley Quinn?!

Thanks for posting the colors, William-James88. The first thing I thought when I saw her was "Did we really vote for those colors?!?!?"

The answer is "NO!" We voted for a friggin' green transformer with red and white highlights - not a Christmas tree nightmare of mint green, and red with black. The red and green that they are using are almost compliments of each other so they are really hard on the eyes when used the way the designers used them here.

I hope that either Hasbro tweaks the deco (still using the same colors) before she comes to retail. I would say that we need at least as much white as red and get rid of most of the black - especially on Rustdust.

They should look at Devastator and how it used it's mostly green with purple and black highlights and how the different bots look like a team without looking exactly the same.

There are some cool ideas with the hands and feet and the cool sword but right now Victorion is a huge eye-sore. Definitely not something I would want on my shelf.

-Kanrabat- wrote:I just came into this thread. I'm glad I avoided the drama. Sure, I WOULD have liked a "hot femme fatale" Ghestalt. Mainly to see how it could be done. Seeing an original character made only out of repaints would be greatly dissapointing. I just hope the retoolings will be significant enough to show some "tough mamas" à-la RID Strongarm rather than standard bots in fabulous colors.

As for the colors, it look puke-ugly as for now.

Stiiiiiiiill......

The detailed HD images of the individual bots and the combiner are yet to come. Only then will Final Jugement be made.

They are all available here: http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/official-promotional-images-fan-built-combiner-victorion-and-torchbearers/33453/


So what is your verdict?

I like them well enough, but what did ever happen to that third color? Maybe someone should ask hasbro about it if sdcc is still going on...

Burn wrote:

Wolfman Jake wrote:Why do we accept Devastator or Predaking with their unified team colors for their individual members? They seem to be exceptions to the rule, but they're both celebrated. No one calls them out on having a "symmetrical" deco for all members. Bright red and teal just don't mesh well, unlike Devastator's green and purple or Predaking's orange and black motifs.

We didn't question it because that's just how it was. We were kids, they were robots that combined into a bigger robot, I for one wouldn't have cared about the colours back then.

So we've grown up accepting that Predaking and Devestator have a somewhat uniform colour scheme, while the Scramble guys don't.

We didn't really object to the crazy colours of G2, 'cause you know, TRANSFORMING ROBOTS!

But now, we're all a little bit older, our tastes have "matured" and along comes Victorion with her scramble city style combination but with a uniform colour scheme! I wonder if people may be rejecting the colours on a subconscious level because of what a lot of us grew up with.

My questions were meant to be more rhetorical than interrogative, but yes, I agree nostalgia has a lot to do with why the original exceptions to the rule are fine by us, but this new one is raising alarms. I think there IS something that can save Victorion and her color scheme, though, beyond Hasbro tinkering with the hues a bit: story. If Hasbro can give us a compelling reason why the "Torchbearers" all wear matching colors, and why they use these specific colors, there will be a lot more acceptance from us, the fans.

william-james88 wrote:

They are all available here: http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/official-promotional-images-fan-built-combiner-victorion-and-torchbearers/33453/


So what is your verdict?

I will SHOCK Seibertron's Tumblrinas when I say NONE of these bots look female. From close-up or far away. Maybe just the very first and only thanks to the head. Their colors are horrible.

No way I'm going to buy that team of utter cr...
See the whole combiner
...aaaaaamy GOD, that thing is GLORIOUS.

If the price is right, I may buy. Like G2 FOC Bruticus right, at 80$US for the team.
I still need to see the REAL photos of the REAL figures. No prototypes, no photoshop.

I think the biggest problem with Victorion's colour layout is the fact that she's virtually nothing but scallop-foot red and mouthwash teal. Had there been more black and silver to break up the monotony a bit it wouldn't have been so bad.

Of course, no amount of colour switches can change the fact that slapping a new head and boxy tits on a decidedly male figure does not make for an even successful fembot (not to mention how annoying it is that we get yet more reuses of the same goddamn molds). Really, something as momentous as the first all-female combiner deserved all-new molds for the entire team.

Honestly? I reckon instead of doing this fanbuilt combiner they should have just made the new members of the G1 teams (Alpha Bravo, Offroad, Rook etc) into fembots.

Delta Magnus wrote:Honestly? I reckon instead of doing this fanbuilt combiner they should have just made the new members of the G1 teams (Alpha Bravo, Offroad, Rook etc) into fembots.

Dude.

That is one HELL of a missed opportunity right there.
These characters are all new. So, why werent they femmed-up?

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Delta Magnus wrote:Honestly? I reckon instead of doing this fanbuilt combiner they should have just made the new members of the G1 teams (Alpha Bravo, Offroad, Rook etc) into fembots.

Dude.

That is one HELL of a missed opportunity right there.
These characters are all new. So, why werent they femmed-up?

OR instead of letting the fans choose stuff, just announce at sdcc that a new combiner is being made that is female, and plan to make all new molds for it that could be retooled into other figures, adding even more diversity to the ranks. Heck, that may have even gotten rid of the '84 teams, which would have been nice.

... I want to think of the torso bot as her own fembot character... but all my mind will let me process is that head, and that head makes me think "Wait, Prowl is a red firetruck now?" I like the combined mode but I feel like the red got overused and the white/silver not used enough.

TerranPrime wrote:

william-james88 wrote:Check out the color that won on the poll, the white should be as prevalent as the red. So what's going on here, how is red all over this ala Harley Quinn?!

Thanks for posting the colors, William-James88. The first thing I thought when I saw her was "Did we really vote for those colors?!?!?"

The answer is "NO!" We voted for a friggin' green transformer with red and white highlights - not a Christmas tree nightmare of mint green, and red with black. The red and green that they are using are almost compliments of each other so they are really hard on the eyes when used the way the designers used them here.

What people voted for was teal, red and white. The problem here is people are assuming that because teal was the bigger rectangle it was going to be the dominant colour.

So on one hand, people made a mistake in assuming that, on the other hand, Hasbro kinda misrepresented the colour scheme choices.

So has anybody thought about swapping one the the helicopters arms with Blades I don't know it just seems more appropriate.

Burn wrote:

TerranPrime wrote:

william-james88 wrote:Check out the color that won on the poll, the white should be as prevalent as the red. So what's going on here, how is red all over this ala Harley Quinn?!

Thanks for posting the colors, William-James88. The first thing I thought when I saw her was "Did we really vote for those colors?!?!?"

The answer is "NO!" We voted for a friggin' green transformer with red and white highlights - not a Christmas tree nightmare of mint green, and red with black. The red and green that they are using are almost compliments of each other so they are really hard on the eyes when used the way the designers used them here.

What people voted for was teal, red and white. The problem here is people are assuming that because teal was the bigger rectangle it was going to be the dominant colour.

So on one hand, people made a mistake in assuming that, on the other hand, Hasbro kinda misrepresented the colour scheme choices.

Let's be honest though. Who would look at those colours and not assume that the big bloody rectable on the left that is taking up most of the palette is the main colour? Everyone was expecting either an orange, teal or royal blue combiner. They really overplayed the red, and should've at least divided the colours up a bit fairer on the figure. I don't even think I see any white anyway...

Va'al wrote:

Burn wrote:

Moosey wrote:

shajaki wrote:

Burn wrote:I don't see "females", I see robots.
That being said, individually, not too fussed on them. But combined? I quite like the combined mode.

I'm agreeing with you a lot today Burn
Individually its kind of a fail for me. Combined though... I'm really diggin it.

I agree with burn. I mean, I just find it ridiculous that some people must insist on their figures looking like supermodels... I mean, do you want your Optimus to have a super accurate male physique with sculpted muscles???

Sucking up to me will only work if you admit I'm prettier than Va'al.

..but.. you *are* prettier!

I wasn't sucking up, I actually agree with you... but you are prettier than Va'al...

Syn_13 wrote:

Burn wrote:

TerranPrime wrote:

william-james88 wrote:Check out the color that won on the poll, the white should be as prevalent as the red. So what's going on here, how is red all over this ala Harley Quinn?!

Thanks for posting the colors, William-James88. The first thing I thought when I saw her was "Did we really vote for those colors?!?!?"

The answer is "NO!" We voted for a friggin' green transformer with red and white highlights - not a Christmas tree nightmare of mint green, and red with black. The red and green that they are using are almost compliments of each other so they are really hard on the eyes when used the way the designers used them here.

What people voted for was teal, red and white. The problem here is people are assuming that because teal was the bigger rectangle it was going to be the dominant colour.

So on one hand, people made a mistake in assuming that, on the other hand, Hasbro kinda misrepresented the colour scheme choices.

Let's be honest though. Who would look at those colours and not assume that the big bloody rectable on the left that is taking up most of the palette is the main colour? Everyone was expecting either an orange, teal or royal blue combiner. They really overplayed the red, and should've at least divided the colours up a bit fairer on the figure. I don't even think I see any white anyway...

It is the basis of implied logic

If it's not obvious enough, I'll leave this here.

-Kanrabat- wrote:If it's not obvious enough, I'll leave this here.

Maybe try to compare that image to the pallet that was offered for windblade

But again, whose fault is it? The fans and their assumptions, or Hasbro for not being clear about how the colour scheme would be made up?

Burn wrote:But again, whose fault is it? The fans and their assumptions, or Hasbro for not being clear about how the colour scheme would be made up?

I'm going to go with both