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Razorbeast88 wrote:Wasn't sure what thread to put this one but fossilizers are kingdom soooooo
Any moon knight fans? Tried to have punch/counterpunch as steven/marc and the fossilizers to make up khonshu and armor. So far just kinda tried several things, this would be for Mr Knight i guess since I have the armor on punch

Does that make Jake their car mode?

william-james88 wrote:I'm a moon knight fan. I forget, did I post my pic of Konshu using the fossilisers?

Also, I just got my Slammer and I am not a big fan. Unlike the earthrise modulars, this guy feels wonky and lims to detach quite easily. Like Cog, which I guess makes sense since those are more similar. Though I wish Hasbro had improved.

Looking back on Kingdom, not sure in what order I would rate these toys but here are the ones I liked best:

Airrazor
Primal
Cyclonus
Inferno
Tigatron
Blaster

And my favourite of the fossilisers was Wingfiner

You mentioned your plan to build Khonshu in the Legacy thread, but you never put the pic up anywhere that I saw, at least.

I didn't get Cyclonus or Inferno (although I got Artfire and my girlfriend is getting Targetmaster Cyclonus), so I can't chime in on them, but I agree with your assessments of everyone else mentioned...except Slammer, Slammer is great. He's got the most Alex Milne/MtMtE headsculpt possible and a chainsaw sword/s, what's not to love?

Then again, my Slammer doesn't have loose limbs, so clearly mileage may vary.

william-james88 wrote:I'm a moon knight fan. I forget, did I post my pic of Konshu using the fossilisers?

Also, I just got my Slammer and I am not a big fan. Unlike the earthrise modulars, this guy feels wonky and lims to detach quite easily. Like Cog, which I guess makes sense since those are more similar. Though I wish Hasbro had improved.

Looking back on Kingdom, not sure in what order I would rate these toys but here are the ones I liked best:

Airrazor
Primal
Cyclonus
Inferno
Tigatron
Blaster

And my favourite of the fossilisers was Wingfiner

Can't remember if you posted the pic or just mentioned that you were making khonshu with the fossilizers

My favorite fossilizer has to be Wingfinger as well
I got blaster in the nail a couple weeks ago and man he's just great. Really well done, up there with cyclonus for sure

Nemesis Primal wrote:You mentioned your plan to build Khonshu in the Legacy thread, but you never put the pic up anywhere that I saw, at least.

Well let me rectify that, here it is:

william-james88 wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:You mentioned your plan to build Khonshu in the Legacy thread, but you never put the pic up anywhere that I saw, at least.

Well let me rectify that, here it is:

Kup: "Can you tell me... how to get... how to get to... Sesame Street?"

Finally ordered and got Tricranius and Transmutate, and so far I'm loving them both! Though I suspect my Tricranius came with two left arms instead of one right; it doesn't affect the transformation so it isn't a huge deal, but does anyone have the opposite problem so we can trade parts?

MaximalNui wrote:Finally ordered and got Tricranius and Transmutate, and so far I'm loving them both! Though I suspect my Tricranius came with two left arms instead of one right; it doesn't affect the transformation so it isn't a huge deal, but does anyone have the opposite problem so we can trade parts?

Can't say I do sadly. But I love my Tricranius too, he is wonderful!

The best WFC figure with the best Legacy figure. any RG1 fans in here?

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:The best WFC figure with the best Legacy figure. any RG1 fans in here?

I already replied in the other thread, but so what.

I think Metroplex will be the best Legacy figure, but comparing might be unfair, considering the class difference.

As for Rodimus, I never got him because of the trailer. It would be awesome if Hasbro rerelease his Hot Rod component by itself in either Legacy or Selects, even though I know some fans would get upset.

And I like the RG1 story, just not that version of Jhiaxus. G2 was more entertaining.

Rodimus Prime wrote:As for Rodimus, I never got him because of the trailer. It would be awesome if Hasbro rerelease his Hot Rod component by itself in either Legacy or Selects, even though I know some fans would get upset.

And I like the RG1 story, just not that version of Jhiaxus. G2 was more entertaining.

My Rodimus trailer mostly hangs out by itself in battle mode with all the effects parts. The main figure though is just so good, legitimately amazing. They really did make him nigh perfect.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:As for Rodimus, I never got him because of the trailer. It would be awesome if Hasbro rerelease his Hot Rod component by itself in either Legacy or Selects, even though I know some fans would get upset.

And I like the RG1 story, just not that version of Jhiaxus. G2 was more entertaining.

My Rodimus trailer mostly hangs out by itself in battle mode with all the effects parts. The main figure though is just so good, legitimately amazing. They really did make him nigh perfect.

That's why I had a hard time saying no. If I got him as he was being sold, I would have an $80 voyager figure. I am also a big fan of Rodimus from the comics, but I have to settle for MP-28 as my "Rodimus Prime" even though technically that's a Hot Rod figure.

Here's something I did not know, Red Alert was spotted in stores at Walgreens. a discussion came up about it on TFW2005 and Wreckgar gave his evidence (pic below) and others chimed in on finding it in stores as well.

william-james88 wrote:Here's something I did not know, Red Alert was spotted in stores at Walgreens. a discussion came up about it on TFW2005 and Wreckgar gave his evidence (pic below) and others chimed in on finding it in stores as well.

That is news to me also. Thank you. Red was the first since 2016 of the WG exclusives I never found in store. I had to order one on the WG site to gift to someone else. I used to pride myself on being able to find them all, especially since so many other mainline releases are fairly elusive despite me living in a suburban area with 20 Walmarts and/or Targets in driving distance. Hopefully Legacy Minerva will be a bit easier, because I'd really like to get that one for y daughter.

It's kind of sad there are arguably "better" versions of Arcee and Elita-1 coming this year, but my daughter is satisfied having one of each (she actually has 2 Arcees - TR and E), but because they are so very different, she made a concession. To her however, all the other Arcee's that have come since are basically the same.

I never saw Kingdom Rodimus at retail, I got him from Amazon at full price. It is what it is...but he did go on sale several times. Seeing as how the Titan and CC for Legacy have almost zero interest for me, I can wait. If (like a few months back), Pulse does one of their big sales where I could get Cybertron Metroplex and/or Motormaster for around half price, I'll get them, otherwise, I'm fine. without.

LATER-MADE EDIT: Several flaws in the following theory have been pointed out to me, making it due for a rewrite.

I've been thinking lately about the "What could have been" for Kingdom had Hasbro decided to go with their original plans for it, before they decided to add Beast Wars characters to the line and move some of the G1 characters over to Studio Series.

Looking at the wave breakdowns for the Deluxe, Voyager, and Leader classes, I've noticed that some things begin to add up. As for the Core class, I'm not taking it into consideration since I feel like it only came about so that Rattrap could be made in an appropriate size. In this scenario, we're pretending it didn't come into being.


The Deluxe class had five waves. Since the fifth wave was a late decision (as in, Pipes and Slammer got pushed back a wave), let's assume that there were originally only going be four waves. And, assuming that there was originally going to be another kind of "Weaponizer/Modulator"-style gimmick figure, it is likely that they would have been something other than "Fossilizers" since those feel like they were only created after the decision to include Beast Wars was made. Both Siege and Earthrise had one of these figures in each of their first three waves, so we can probably assume that there would have been three released in Kingdom's main line.

Wave 1 was Cheetor, Blackarachnia, Paleotrex, and Warpath. Three beasts, one G1 guy. The contemporary wave of Studio Series had three G1 guys: Jazz, Blurr, and Kup. Presumably, the original Deluxe Wave 1 for Kingdom would have been Warpath, Jazz, Kup, and Blurr. However, with the inclusion of a new gimmick figure in mind, I do feel like Jazz, Blurr, and Kup would have still been included, so Warpath might have been pushed back to make room for the gimmick figure.

Wave 2 was Airazor, Ractonite, Huffer, and the repack of Earthrise Arcee. Two beasts, two G1 guys. Over in Studio Series, it took another wave for Gnaw to get released, but with Warpath and a second gimmick figure included, they could have been the two that Airazor and Ractonite took the place of.

Wave 3 was Scorponok, Tracks, Wingfinger, and the repack of Earthrise Wheeljack. Two beasts, two G1 guys. At this point, Gnaw was released in Studio Series, but no other G1 guy. In this case, one more new gimmick figure would round things out, and could have very well been Slammer since he was built like a Weaponizer.

Wave 4 was Shadow Panther, Waspinator, and repacks of earlier-wave figures. The only new releases in this wave were two beasts, one of which was replacement for the originally-planned Tigatron retool of Cheetor (before it was decided to give Tigatron his own mold as a Voyager). Both Slammer and Pipes were originally supposed to be in this wave, but since we've already put Slammer one wave earlier (and two waves earlier than his actual release), Pipes would be the last new mold in this wave, with the rest being repacks.

OR, supposing that the Sideswipe and Mirage from the two Battle Across Time 2-packs were always planned to exist even before the Beast Wars decision was made, then they could have been wavemates for Pipes along with one more repack of an earlier Deluxe figure.

(SS86 Perceptor didn't come out until this year, so he probably wasn't in the original pre-BW plans for Kingdom)

Thus, in this new scenario, we have the Deluxe waves like so:
Wave 1: Kup, Jazz, Blurr, gimmick figure
Wave 2: Huffer, Arcee, Warpath, gimmick figure
Wave 3: Tracks, Wheeljack, Slammer (gimmick figure), repack
Wave 4: Pipes, Sideswipe, Mirage, repack


Like Deluxe, Voyager class had five waves. But also like Deluxe, Wave 5 was a change in plans made after the decision to cancel the repack of Earthrise Starscream, so Blaster probably first came about when Hasbro started planning for Legacy. So we'll just assume that there were originally only four waves.

Wave 1 was Optimus Primal and Cyclonus, Wave 2 was Dinobot and Inferno, Wave 3 was Rhinox and a Cyclonus repack (IIRC), and Wave 4 was Tigatron and a Rhinox repack (IIRC). Four beasts, two G1 guys. Though, Tigatron was a replacement for the canceled repack of Earthrise Starscream after it was decided to make Tigatron a Voyager instead of a Deluxe, so there would have been three beasts and three G1 guys at one point. And of the Studio Series Voyagers released in 2021, only three of them have been molds of G1 guys: Hot Rod, Scourge, and Wreck-Gar (Sweep was a redeco and slight retool, not a new mold).

So with that in mind, the Voyager Waves may have originally looked like this:
Wave 1: Hot Rod, Cyclonus
Wave 2: Scourge, Inferno
Wave 3: Starscream, repack
Wave 4: Wreck-Gar, repack

Even though Tigatron was made as a replacement for Starscream, I put Starscream a wave earlier than Tigatron's release because Starscream already existed while Wreck-Gar took a bit longer to see release in 2021, so he would have come after Starscream.


Leader class is simultaneously both simpler and trickier to figure out in this scenario. It's simpler in that there's only three waves: Wave 1 was Predacon Megatron and a repack of Earthrise Optimus Prime, Wave 2 was Ultra Magnus and a repack of one of the first two (I don't remember which), and Wave 3 was Galvatron and a repack of Megatron. One beast, three G1 guys. But it's trickier because Studio Series had two G1 Leader molds in 2021: Grimlock and Slug. The obvious choice for who Megatron took the place of is Grimlock, but that's assuming that Slug wasn't also originally in the cards at the time. And, well, that may have indeed been the case.

Slug's wave came very late in 2021, during the late Fall and in the Christmas season. His wavemate was ROTF Grindor, a reuse of the Blackout mold. Slug may have only come about after Grimlock was not only first made but also after Studio Series 86 had proved successful enough. It's very possible that, once again, Grimlock was going to have been the only Dinobot released, and that the decision to make all five Dinobots in the Leader class came after Grimlock was made.

And Grindor being Slug's wavemate could be a sign that Slug's wave was a late decision, with Grindor being easy filler as a mere retool of an existing mold, the first Leader class Studio Series toy to not be either a new mold or an extensive retool of another mold (AOE Grimlock, Blackout, DOTM Megatron, Jetfire, the extensively-retooled DOTM Optimus Prime w/ his all-new trailer mold, Scavenger, Shockwave, Overload, and G1 Grimlock).

So with all that in mind, the original Leader class waves could have been:
Wave 1: Optimus Prime, Grimlock
Wave 2: Ultra Magnus, repack
Wave 3: Galvatron, repack



To sum up, this is what the entirety of Kingdom (or whatever it might have been called) could have looked like before it was decided to bring in Beast Wars and create Studio Series 86:

Deluxe class
Wave 1: Kup, Jazz, Blurr, gimmick figure
Wave 2: Huffer, Arcee, Warpath, gimmick figure
Wave 3: Tracks, Wheeljack, Slammer (gimmick figure), repack
Wave 4: Pipes, Sideswipe, Mirage, repack

Voyager class
Wave 1: Hot Rod, Cyclonus
Wave 2: Scourge, Inferno
Wave 3: Starscream, repack
Wave 4: Wreck-Gar, repack

Leader class
Wave 1: Optimus Prime, Grimlock
Wave 2: Ultra Magnus, repack
Wave 3: Galvatron, repack

No Gears? He was far along enough to make it on the poster so surely he was part of the original plan, maybe Swerve as well.

Emerje

Sabrblade wrote:Thus, in this new scenario, we have the Deluxe waves like so:
Wave 1: Kup, Jazz, Blurr, gimmick figure
Wave 2: Huffer, Arcee, Warpath, gimmick figure
Wave 3: Tracks, Wheeljack, Slammer (gimmick figure), repack
Wave 4: Pipes, Sideswipe, Mirage, repack

I'll echo Emerje here and bring up Gears, we know for certain he was planned for the line even after the SS86 split. Granted, according to leakers with inside info, Gears was planned at Core Class, but if we're planning at a stage in this hypothetical where Core Class doesn't exist yet, then that wouldn't matter, and that bit of info always made it feel to me like Gears must have started at Deluxe and got shoved down to make room for other Deluxes anyway, since otherwise he would have been inconsistent compared to Huffer, Warpath, and Cliff from ER.

I also don't know that you could assume that Sideswipe and Mirage would have been mainline were it not for BW stuff, since we don't know the inner workings of how exclusives are pitched and greenlit, but if Gears was in play then Swerve would also be an option for a late-wave slot or an exclusive instead of one of those 2.

Sabrblade wrote:Though, Tigatron was a replacement for the canceled repack of Earthrise Starscream after it was decided to make Tigatron a Voyager instead of a Deluxe, so there would have been three beasts and three G1 guys at one point.

Tigatron replaced Polar Claw, not Starscream. We know from the artwork of the line and from leakers that Polar Claw was planned before losing his spot to an in-scale Tigatron, and both Tigatron and Starscream still had planned Kingdom Voyager releases by the time of the line's store listings leaking. I'm pretty sure what got Starscream kicked was Hasbro internally greenlighting Coronation Starscream for SS86, as they didn't want the Voyager version to detract from the potential sales of the Leader.

Sabrblade wrote:So with that in mind, the Voyager Waves may have originally looked like this:
Wave 1: Hot Rod, Cyclonus
Wave 2: Scourge, Inferno
Wave 3: Starscream, repack
Wave 4: Wreck-Gar, repack

I would switch Wreck-Gar and Screamer so that wave 4 would be Sweep and Screamer, since Screamer is himself a repack already and that would put Wreck-Gar and Sweep in the exact same later waves they released in in SS86.

Sabrblade wrote:The obvious choice for who Megatron took the place of is Grimlock, but that's assuming that Slug wasn't also originally in the cards at the time. And, well, that may have indeed been the case.

Slug's wave came very late in 2021, during the late Fall and in the Christmas season. His wavemate was ROTF Grindor, a reuse of the Blackout mold. Slug may have only come about after Grimlock was not only first made but also after Studio Series 86 had proved successful enough. It's very possible that, once again, Grimlock was going to have been the only Dinobot released, and that the decision to make all five Dinobots in the Leader class came after Grimlock was made.

...all three SS Leader figures that year had store listings leak within the same week though, they couldn't have waited for Grimlock to already be on shelves to make Slug and still have pitched them both to stores at the same time. Unless you're suggesting Hasbro told stores they were making a character with every intent of switching that character out in 5-8 months (based on how early Slug and Grimlock's listings were found compared to Grimlock's release), which considering that Legacy Straxus listing that showed up maaaaybe could have been the case, but seems unlikely to me.

Sabrblade wrote:So with all that in mind, the original Leader class waves could have been:
Wave 1: Optimus Prime, Grimlock
Wave 2: Ultra Magnus, repack
Wave 3: Galvatron, repack

I'd think it would be the following:
Wave 1: Grimlock, Magnus
Wave 2: Galvatron, Optimus (repack)
Wave 3: Slug, (repack)

Earthrise only started with a repack because the repacked figure in question (Astrotrain) was designed for ER but then pulled forwards, so with that in mind both Siege and ER started with 2 new Leaders in wave 1, the third segment following suit with that makes sense (but also starting with Magnus would be cheaper and more feasible than trying to pull Galvatron forwards 3 waves).

There's no way Core Class exists just for one character, that's not how toylines work. I've seen it said in multiple spaces that micromasters were not selling well enough for Hasbro to want to keep them. But Hasbro always wants to have a pricepoint below deluxe available. This means Core Class is sort of an inevitable replacement for micromasters: a price point that's cheaper than deluxe, that can be used for smaller characters, unknown characters that might not sell well, and smaller versions of very popular characters, which are guaranteed buys from people who can't afford anything above core class.

It's the perfect replacement for micromasters, because it doesn't rely on the bigger pricepoints, it can be carried by the usual G1 faces, gives the smaller characters a chance, and can be used for the occasional "fan pleaser" character, like Spike, DOTM Laserbeak or Iguanus. Way better all around sell than micromasters, who outside of Soundwave's minions and Hot Rod, had no options for easy selling characters, and required you to have a bigger figure to fully enjoy them. And even then, because Hasbro never really commited to base building and the micromasters' gun modes, the gimmick ends up pretty half-baked. Core class, in contrast, is probably an absolute win for them, and probably the reason why they expanded it to SS86.

...I completely forgot all about Gears having been a thing.

Welp, there goes my theory!

EDIT: On second reading of what y'all wrote, maybe not quite "there goes", but rather some tweaking could still be done to make it work.

I would like to add that I believe the Fossilizers would have been the gimmick for the Kingdom line even if it didn't have Beast Wars figures. The fossilizers were made to go with the G1 characters, not eh beast wars characters. We see that both in the options for connection, which are much fewer in the beast wars line, and the marketting which only shows the fossilizers connecting with the G1 characters.

william-james88 wrote:I would like to add that I believe the Fossilizers would have been the gimmick for the Kingdom line even if it didn't have Beast Wars figures. The fossilizers were made to go with the G1 characters, not eh beast wars characters. We see that both in the options for connection, which are much fewer in the beast wars line, and the marketting which only shows the fossilizers connecting with the G1 characters.

I think we're all in agreement that the line would have still had a Weaponizer equivalent, yes, but why would they be fossil-themed if they weren't doing Beast Wars stuff?

Nemesis Primal wrote:

william-james88 wrote:I would like to add that I believe the Fossilizers would have been the gimmick for the Kingdom line even if it didn't have Beast Wars figures. The fossilizers were made to go with the G1 characters, not eh beast wars characters. We see that both in the options for connection, which are much fewer in the beast wars line, and the marketting which only shows the fossilizers connecting with the G1 characters.

I think we're all in agreement that the line would have still had a Weaponizer equivalent, yes, but why would they be fossil-themed if they weren't doing Beast Wars stuff?

Sorry, I never answered. I don't have an answer though, don't know. But it is odd that the fossil animals don't interact with the beast transformers as well as they do the G1 characters.

Remember finding something cool at Ross? We haven't had a sighting like that for a while. But we do now thanks to a post by Jeff on Facebook. The Battle Across Time 2 pack with Maximal Skywarp and Sideswipe was found in multiple Ross locations for $22.99. The images below are from an LA sighting but the set was found in Pheonix as well.

william-james88 wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:

william-james88 wrote:I would like to add that I believe the Fossilizers would have been the gimmick for the Kingdom line even if it didn't have Beast Wars figures. The fossilizers were made to go with the G1 characters, not eh beast wars characters. We see that both in the options for connection, which are much fewer in the beast wars line, and the marketting which only shows the fossilizers connecting with the G1 characters.

I think we're all in agreement that the line would have still had a Weaponizer equivalent, yes, but why would they be fossil-themed if they weren't doing Beast Wars stuff?

Sorry, I never answered. I don't have an answer though, don't know. But it is odd that the fossil animals don't interact with the beast transformers as well as they do the G1 characters.

Perhaps they could have been smaller Junkions or even Lithones, to better match the TFTM theme, in this hypothetical alternate version of the line.

Sabrblade wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:

william-james88 wrote:I would like to add that I believe the Fossilizers would have been the gimmick for the Kingdom line even if it didn't have Beast Wars figures. The fossilizers were made to go with the G1 characters, not eh beast wars characters. We see that both in the options for connection, which are much fewer in the beast wars line, and the marketting which only shows the fossilizers connecting with the G1 characters.

I think we're all in agreement that the line would have still had a Weaponizer equivalent, yes, but why would they be fossil-themed if they weren't doing Beast Wars stuff?

Sorry, I never answered. I don't have an answer though, don't know. But it is odd that the fossil animals don't interact with the beast transformers as well as they do the G1 characters.

Perhaps they could have been smaller Junkions or even Lithones, to better match the TFTM theme, in this hypothetical alternate version of the line.

That could explain all the Junkions comin in future Legacy waves.

Emerje

Jesus this is just being reported now? I should have reported this last month when I saw posts on Reddit about people picking these up at Ross.

Cyber Bishop wrote:Jesus this is just being reported now? I should have reported this last month when I saw posts on Reddit about people picking these up at Ross.

Yeah, please report when you hear of stuff like that.