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Here's something fascinating.

Bob Skir talks about the development of Beast Machines.

Turns out all of the spirituality of the show was what Hasbro wanted and Skir was initially against it. He kept trying to talk them out of it but Hasbro kept insisting.

It was even Hasbro who wanted Beast Machines to be, and I quote, "as much of a departure from Beast Wars as Beast Wars was from the original Transformers shows."

If that is what Hasbro wanted, then Beast Machines would have been better placed after Season 2. Give Megatron the win ala how the end of The Agenda actually played out. Immediate next episode - opening arc of Beast Machines. That would have been more palatable to the audience. Since those characters would not have been the same ones they knew.

Introduce Depthcharge instead of Nightscream. Swap out Botanica for Tigerhawk and it might have actually worked.

Meanwhile, Ian Corlett (Cheetor) and Jim Byrnes (Thrust) both really LOVED Beast Machines:

Cheetor and Megatron were the only two that really benefitted from Beast Machines. In terms of characterisation.
I think in hindsight, it was a bit of wasted potential to have undermined the Vehicons by making them prior characters. Especially Rhinox, obviously.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Cheetor and Megatron were the only two that really benefitted from Beast Machines. In terms of characterisation.

Eh, maybe Cheetor, since it felt as a progression on his growth in maturity and responsibility from BW. Megatron, while certainly more powerful and menacing, lost a lot of his original Machiavellian charisma, and ended up with completely different goals and values than with zero explanation (remember when he got angry at the mere mention of "the H-word"? Where was that when he honored a deal with Rattrap despite having every reason to betray him?).

Seriously, for all the media dedicated to the period between G1 and BW, there isn't enough explaining what Megatron was doing between BW and BM to make him so anti-organic and anti-individuality. Then again, the latter could be explained by being constantly betrayed by any Predacon not named Scorponok or Inferno.

MaximalNui wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Cheetor and Megatron were the only two that really benefitted from Beast Machines. In terms of characterisation.

Eh, maybe Cheetor, since it felt as a progression on his growth in maturity and responsibility from BW. Megatron, while certainly more powerful and menacing, lost a lot of his original Machiavellian charisma, and ended up with completely different goals and values than with zero explanation (remember when he got angry at the mere mention of "the H-word"? Where was that when he honored a deal with Rattrap despite having every reason to betray him?).

Seriously, for all the media dedicated to the period between G1 and BW, there isn't enough explaining what Megatron was doing between BW and BM to make him so anti-organic and anti-individuality. Then again, the latter could be explained by being constantly betrayed by any Predacon not named Scorponok or Inferno.

I think most just headcanon the idea that G1 Megatron's spark affected his mind during the brief time that he held it, and influenced his feelings about organics since G1 Megatron was a robo-supremacist with a disdain towards organics (or as he derogatorily termed them, "puny fleshlings").

After all, he'd also suddenly developed a god complex in the BW series finale, (during which he still held G1 Megs's spark), which is something G1 Megatron also possessed, and which BW Megatron also had to an even greater extent in Beast Machines.

Sabrblade wrote:

MaximalNui wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Cheetor and Megatron were the only two that really benefitted from Beast Machines. In terms of characterisation.

Eh, maybe Cheetor, since it felt as a progression on his growth in maturity and responsibility from BW. Megatron, while certainly more powerful and menacing, lost a lot of his original Machiavellian charisma, and ended up with completely different goals and values than with zero explanation (remember when he got angry at the mere mention of "the H-word"? Where was that when he honored a deal with Rattrap despite having every reason to betray him?).

Seriously, for all the media dedicated to the period between G1 and BW, there isn't enough explaining what Megatron was doing between BW and BM to make him so anti-organic and anti-individuality. Then again, the latter could be explained by being constantly betrayed by any Predacon not named Scorponok or Inferno.

I think most just headcanon the idea that G1 Megatron's spark affected his mind during the brief time that he held it, and influenced his feelings about organics since G1 Megatron was a robo-supremacist with a disdain towards organics (or as he derogatorily termed them, "puny fleshlings").

After all, he'd also suddenly developed a god complex in the BW series finale, (during which he still held G1 Megs's spark), which is something G1 Megatron also possessed, and which BW Megatron also had to an even greater extent in Beast Machines.

Exactly this. I always envisioned BM Megs having been corrupted by bearing G1 Meg's spark. Megatron becoming more and more twisted with it's influence. The anti-individuality can absolutely be ascribed to Dinobot betrayal 2.0. Couple that G1 Meg's history of betrayal added to the mix, and an army of drones would be preferable to any and all dissent. The Vehicons served his every command without question, after all.

A similar trail of thought could be applied to Primal's bizarre BM characterisation. But G1 Prime wasn't really a zealot.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:A similar trail of thought could be applied to Primal's bizarre BM characterisation. But G1 Prime wasn't really a zealot.

Or just say the Oracle affected more than just his body when he got reformatted.

And let's not forget that "Gorilla Warfare" showed us that deep down inside that restrained, rational mind of his beats the spark of a raging berserker.

Sabrblade wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:A similar trail of thought could be applied to Primal's bizarre BM characterisation. But G1 Prime wasn't really a zealot.

Or just say the Oracle affected more than just his body when he got reformatted.

And let's not forget that "Gorilla Warfare" showed us that deep down inside that restrained, rational mind of his beats the spark of a raging berserker.

True.

To this day, I find Rattrap and Primal the most egregious in their BM characterisation. To they extent they could/should have been different characters. Then again, the Maximals in general are the reason I don't rewatch Beast Machines and likely never will.

Now, this is interesting.

Bob Skir reveals that the Beast Machines character designs were made outside of his control and without any of his input. When he was writing episodes with what he was told about the characters in mind, he hadn't yet been shown the character design for Rattrap until about five episodes into the series. And when he was finally shown what Rattrap was gonna look like... he didn't like it.

He felt that Rattrap's BM design was so goofy-looking. In fact, he says that it was even designed to be goofy on purpose: "What Asaph Fipke said at the time was they wanted to give this tough-talkin' guy a really really goofy robot mode," and that it was completely counterpoint to what Skir was writing up to that point.

Same with Nightscream. He'd created the character as a John Connor type, but when he finally saw the design, he felt the "ankle wings" look made him look too much like a skateboarder.

And yet, these were the designs that he had no choice but to work with, since he had no say on the matter.

...Twins

Yeah, I was very disappointed in most aspects of Beast Machines. My girlfriend at the time I 1st saw it in 2009 was a huge Transformers fan, especially the Japanese series, all of them from Headmasters to Galaxy Force, and she talked it up to me a lot in order to get me to watch it. I love Beast Wars to this day, but I had no preconceived notions of Beast Machines, because when Beast Wars ended, I got completely out of Transformers for 2 years, with Robots in Disguise bringing me back into it slowly. Then I watched the entire Beast Machines series in about 3 days, and it was a downer. I didn't like the look, I didn't like the characterizations, but I watched it all the way through, because the story was somewhat intriguing. I just wish the Maximals had been presented better. IMO, some of the worst characterization of all time in Transformers. To this day I continually rank Beast Wars on or near the bottom of my list of Transformers media.

And here's another interesting video with behind-the-scenes info from Bob Skir:



Points of interest:

* Before Transtech was conceived, Hasbro originally wanted a third season of Beast Machines. It only didn't happen because Skir said no. Beast Machines had been pitched as a "26-episode novel for television". He knew at the time that some fans loved it and other fans hated it with a passion, and felt that a third season would be a disservice to both the story and to the fans on both sides. Skir did not want to have to pad out the story in order to drag it out into a third season, and knew that doing so would have upset both the fans who liked the show and the fans who wanted it to end. Two seasons was the deal and he didn't want to make it longer just for the sake of making it longer.

* Skir also denied himself from working on what would have been the next show (Transtech, which he seems to have no info about in this video). The reason being, he felt that Bob Forward and Larry DiTillio did a fantastic job with Beast Wars and couldn't imagine anyone else doing that series better. Why didn't those two work on Beast Machines? Because it was Hasbro who wanted to do something different. "If you're going to rethink something, rethink it differently," is what Hasbro was thinking at the time. So Hasbro brought in Bob Skir and Marty Isenberg as fresh faces for Beast Machines. And so based on that mentality, if Hasbro was going to make a sequel to Beast Machines like they did with Beast Wars, then Skir reasoned that Hasbro would bring in new people for that sequel as well.

* While Skir knew that he was turning down a whole other season of television work, he wanted to be fair. To the show he was currently working on. To the fans who both loved and hated it. To everyone. And was very sure he would not be involved with a sequel series like how Forward and DiTillio weren't involved with the sequel to their show.

* He didn't plan out any new potential storylines to follow after the end of Beast Machines, but did have some thoughts and musing about what could have potentially happened after it. Like, he thought of a quest story where Optimus's spark ends up somewhere far away and the Maximals have to go on a journey to find it and reunite it with his body or something. He imagined the Maximals going to several nearby star systems and encountering various forms of alien life that weren't necessarily Transformer-like, and seeing what those kinds of interactions would look like. But of course, none of that ended up happening and they were just little thoughts in his head rather than any serious plans.

* Skir is sorry (for those who would have wanted it) that Hasbro never did make a Beast Machines sequel cartoon, but he is also kind of glad because both Beast Wars and Beast Machines had taken Transformers and "went very far afield with it." He had told fans at the time, "If this series isn't to your liking, I'm sorry. I hope you can be a little more open-minded, but understand, if this isn't the Transformers series that you wanted, the next one will be. Because, as much as (Hasbro has) moved away from the original IP, (Hasbro is) going to want to go back to it." And here and now, Skir points out that that's exactly what's happened in the years since then, with Hasbro bringing back much of what people liked about the original iterations, while having also taken and cultivated aspects from their more unique series and incorporated them into new ideas mixed with traditional ones that people have always loved.

* After Beast Machines ended, Skir was happy that "things were returning to a way that the fans enjoyed," but at the same time he also appreciates getting the bold opportunity to take an IP so wholly beloved and go with it in a very different and original direction.

First-Aid wrote::-(

Y u cryin'?

A few days ago I started watching Beast Wars again. I'm almost to the end of season 1. I can never overstate how much I love this show. Voice acting, story, even the 90s graphics. Just a great show all around.

It's funny that I've only seen Season One once, all the way through. I should get back to that someday. But Season One also has most of the episodes I don't like EG The Low Road, within it.

RE: Beast Machines. Instead of a Season Three, that sounds like it would have been bad. I always envisioned a better ending to BM. The Vehicon drones becoming the new bodies to the dispossessed Sparks in the finale. To the Maximals as well. This would have passed the torch from the techno-organic Beast Era back to vehicle based Cybertronian forms.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

First-Aid wrote::-(

Y u cryin'?

He's sad that Transtech never happened.

Outside of the Fun Pub version, that is.

Sabrblade wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

First-Aid wrote::-(

Y u cryin'?

He's sad that Transtech never happened.

Aren't we all? It does sound like it would have been a step up from BM. While at the same time, the premise seemed to share more than a passing nod with Reboot.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

First-Aid wrote::-(

Y u cryin'?

He's sad that Transtech never happened.

Aren't we all? It does sound like it would have been a step up from BM. While at the same time, the premise seemed to share more than a passing nod with Reboot.

Pretty much. I would loved to have seen something that was such a departure from the drivel we get now (G1 reduxed reduxed reduxed Redux) and those toys would have been amazing. It's funny...if you look at some of the sketches they were even more "organic" than the Bayverse characters...completely new.

Indeed...


Poor Depthcharge...

First-Aid wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

First-Aid wrote::-(

Y u cryin'?

He's sad that Transtech never happened.

Aren't we all? It does sound like it would have been a step up from BM. While at the same time, the premise seemed to share more than a passing nod with Reboot.

Pretty much. I would loved to have seen something that was such a departure from the drivel we get now (G1 reduxed reduxed reduxed Redux) and those toys would have been amazing. It's funny...if you look at some of the sketches they were even more "organic" than the Bayverse characters...completely new.

'Course, it would have likely also been an even more drastic departure from Beast Wars than Beast Machines was, which is what put many Beast Wars fans off of Beast Machines in the first place.

And it would have seen a return of such G1 characters as Optimus Prime, Megatron, and Starscream, bringing back more of the old instead of continuing to look squarely forward.

Sabrblade wrote:'Course, it would have likely also been an even more drastic departure from Beast Wars than Beast Machines was, which is what put many Beast Wars fans off of Beast Machines in the first place.

But, the thing that put Beast Wars fans off BM was that departure involved the same characters. Yet with a detrimental personality redux. The jarring disparity was the polarising factor.

Sabrblade wrote:And it would have seen a return of such G1 characters as Optimus Prime, Megatron, and Starscream, bringing back more of the old instead of continuing to look squarely forward.

Meanwhile, this would have been incorporating the old into the new. The Sunbow characters were largely iconic voices over deep characterisation. Which was a staple of Mainframe Beast Wars. Transtech would have introduced those characters to the latter. Thus making the old, new.

The ONLY thing I want more than Transtech is Weird Al Yankovic doing the Super Bowl Halftime Show.

First-Aid wrote:The ONLY thing I want more than Transtech is Weird Al Yankovic doing the Super Bowl Halftime Show.

Only if it's all polka songs with the grand finale of Dare to Be Stupid. They can even take the Junkion dancing scene from TF:TM and put it on the big screen.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

First-Aid wrote:The ONLY thing I want more than Transtech is Weird Al Yankovic doing the Super Bowl Halftime Show.

Only if it's all polka songs with the grand finale of Dare to Be Stupid. They can even take the Junkion dancing scene from TF:TM and put it on the big screen.

No no. Have the football players themselves reenact the Junkion dance scene on the field. One team being the Autobots, the other team being the Junkions.