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Myself and @Soundwave76 talk all the time about sightings. While he lives in KCMO, I live around Springfield, MO, I haven’t seen anything yet. We joke about who will see what first, clearly he has won. Until then i will keep my fingers crossed.

SGM

So only the voyagers and cores in Legacy are in open window boxes.
Deluxes have their usual plastic windows.
Leaders, commanders, and titans are entirely covered.

That's... quite random.

-Kanrabat- wrote:So only the voyagers and cores in Legacy are in open window boxes.
Deluxes have their usual plastic windows.
Leaders, commanders, and titans are entirely covered.

That's... quite random.

Deluxes don't have windows.

-Kanrabat- wrote:So only the voyagers and cores in Legacy are in open window boxes.
Deluxes have their usual plastic windows.
Leaders, commanders, and titans are entirely covered.

That's... quite random.

Only the Wal-Mart exclusive deluxes have the plastic windows

Sentinel_Primal wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:So only the voyagers and cores in Legacy are in open window boxes.
Deluxes have their usual plastic windows.
Leaders, commanders, and titans are entirely covered.

That's... quite random.

Only the Wal-Mart exclusive deluxes have the plastic windows

Also, unless I am mistaken, arent the box types different? Like an in between Kingdom and Legacy.

william-james88 wrote:

Sentinel_Primal wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:So only the voyagers and cores in Legacy are in open window boxes.
Deluxes have their usual plastic windows.
Leaders, commanders, and titans are entirely covered.

That's... quite random.

Only the Wal-Mart exclusive deluxes have the plastic windows

Also, unless I am mistaken, arent the box types different? Like an in between Kingdom and Legacy.

They look identical to Legacy boxes, just with a window. Most like this is done at the request of Walmart since that's the sort of thing they'd have a say in with an exclusive. Incidentally Target Silverstreak's box is also the same as a Legacy box just in Buzzworthy deco.

People were denying a page ago that prices would go up again, but that does seem to be the case. The latest Marvel Legends reveals this past week brought single figures up to $28 (the previous reveals were $26 only a couple weeks ago) and two packs to $55. PR Lightning Collection and SW Black also hit $28. Likewise we were prepared for Legacy Metroplex to be priced at $190 based on listings from store computers, only for it to be announced at $200, a $30 rise from last year (and they still had to make cuts to meet the budget for the price point)! I suspect they'll be giving us some bad news pricewise yet again with Legacy wave 3.

As for why Marvel Legends isn't getting window boxes, it's pretty obviously because the heads on those are made to pop right off. I have heard reports of Legacy figures being found without heads, but we wont know just how big of a deal that's going to be until they become more available.

Also Scott did a well timed video on the subject Sunday and makes a few points about the new packaging and kids. Their new windowless Power Rangers Zord action figures don't seem to be selling as well as the figures they replaced.



Emerje

william-james88 wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:Just because the new toys are G1-inspired, doesn't mean they can't appeal to today's children. If their parents tell them they had similar figures representing the same characters when they were kids that's just a bonus. A kid will walk down a toy aisle and be drawn to whatever they find fun and visually stimulating. And the Legacy figures are nothing if not colorful, especially the packaging. Even if they know nothing of G1 the new toys can be appealing.

That's right, and Hasbro has always said that. Everytime they do, fans speak out against it as if they run the company. But yeah, you are 100% on the ball. Aaron archer said the reason they chose Scoop was because having an orange character in the wave would work well for colour variation on shelves. John warden said the reason they chose Krok as a mainline figure was because a kid would see a robot that transforms into an crocodile. And just now they said Metroplex was picked because construction-type vehicles are favoured among kids.

Of course, fans buy too and are a big part of sales (supposed 30%, that counts anyone aged over 8 ) so these G1 characters are definitely there to get their sales. But that doesn't mean they are the only ones buying, taht's what people have to realize. Do fans really think it was other older collectors who bought all those Earthrise Arcees?

Also, o.supreme already posted this video, but I'll repost it here since it definitely answers why there being specific G1 characters in this line of transforming robots is irrelevant when it comes to selling to kids.



This is not 100% Hasbro verified fact, it's the thoughts from an industry professional, but it definitely lines up with Hasbro's statements and it's explained in a way that may help those not in the know of robot toys within the toy industry.

In the end, any cool looking transforming robot would sell to kids. ANY. But to get that also very lucrative adult market, they make it characters we'd also like to buy.

Someone asked for evidence. We have it. In terms of marketing strategy, we have the adds for kids as well as the channels and places these toys are. Legacy figures are being sold in the toy aisle, next to other toys aimed at kids. If the main market was collectors, the toys would be sold only in collector shops, like high end statues and mafex figures.

Also, we have this internal slide from Hasbro showing their target market being 5-8 year old kids (it was not meant for you to see).

And lastly, we have my anecdotal evidence of what I find in thrift stores. If only collectors bought Generations figures or SS figures, I should find none of them at thrift shops, but that's not the case. Meaning enough of them are bought by parents and kids for them to go through the second hand toy cycle and end up as random toys found in thrift stores with missing panels or heads or whatnot.

This ^

Excellently put Will.

I don't understand why people want to make a fight about Hasbro stating it, as the argument seems to come up everything something like this is mentioned (like when we saw the slides stating the 30% figure).

william-james88 wrote:And lastly, we have my anecdotal evidence of what I find in thrift stores. If only collectors bought Generations figures or SS figures, I should find none of them at thrift shops, but that's not the case. Meaning enough of them are bought by parents and kids for them to go through the second hand toy cycle and end up as random toys found in thrift stores with missing panels or heads or whatnot.

Exactly.

If only "the fans" would buy Transformers (or any mainline toys), those lines would be either shut down permanently, or Hasbro will go the 3P route. Meaning selling them in very limited quantities at 50$+ a core, 100$+ a deluxe, 150$+ a voyager, 200$+ a leader, 300$+ a commander, and 500$+ a titan.

For too many people, it's a concept that is just impossible to understand.

DeathReviews wrote:Why... is that PLASTIC I see in those box windows?

I noticed that as well. Part of an exclusive deal with Walmart?

Can Hasbro redeco the Netflix Soundwave mold into Soundblaster and sell that?

Otaku-mus Prime wrote:

DeathReviews wrote:Why... is that PLASTIC I see in those box windows?

I noticed that as well. Part of an exclusive deal with Walmart?

Can Hasbro redeco the Netflix Soundwave mold into Soundblaster and sell that?

I don't think so. BUT, they could work with Walmart and reissue Soundwave (or release Soundblaster) through another round of exclusives. I think Target did that with some exclusive GIJoe figures.

-Kanrabat- wrote:For too many people, it's a concept that is just impossible to understand.

And I don't get why, these toys are literally sold in the kid toy aisle next to all other kid toys like Bakugan, Batman and Power Rangers.

Maybe it's the way this is mentioned, which brings it back to kids. I don't know if instead, it would be better to simply say that these kids toys are also made with collectors in mind. While all are made to be sold to kids, some are not made to be sold to fans (like 90% of Cyberverse toys and all the upcoming 2022 ROTB toys) but some are (like the SS series and the Legacy series). Would that be a better way of saying it? Comes out to the same thing, but at least fans are placed on some kind of pedestal by mentioning them.

I do find it a bit disgusting that some fans are blaming Hasbro's mention of kids as the reason we are getting Cybertron Metroplex over a G1 Metroplex (or over another Titan). UT fans finally have their moment in the sun and it's being trivialized by G1 fans. Sure kids are a mentioned factor, but it's still a big beautiful homage to Cybertron Metroplex that was definitely made with fans in mind. And, FYI, ALL titans are done with kids still in mind, regardless who the target market for that specific toy is. Or else there would not have been mention of whether or not a drop test was done for Fort Max.

It is interesting though how different aspects of the roundtable discussion trigerred some fans. A part I did omit here, because it was not clear at all, was the part about some non G1 having more preorder sales than some G1 characters (which turns out to be trivial when you consider that most of these toys are being sold at retail stores and not through preorder). That was the first line mentioned in the TFW roundup and that's all that was discussed. Fans never got to the bit about open boxes being preferred by kids. Just like we never got to the part about CW compatibility not being intended.

And thanks Emerje for that video on boxes, I watched it too. I didn't know that "try me" features upped the chance of sale by 80% and that the open box system was a subset of that feature. Still, it does mess with my brain when he talks of Marvel Legends because him being worried of the impact and what it says to parents means that there are parents out there spending $30 on a Spider-man Noire figure. Not saying that isn't the case, at all, I just find it crazy that it is. I mean that's more than I'm willing to pay for the present my kids bring to a friend's birthday.

I really do enjoy Spectre Creative. Scott's way of presenting information is very informative, and fun, and not in an annoying way like many other Youtubers.

About the whole "Adult Collector" thing... like we discussed previously, I was never in denial that toys in general, are made for kids, including Transformers. I mean there is an adult collector market, high end statues, models toys that cost hundreds if not thousands of dollars, but that's besides the point.

I always agreed that kids were the focus, but starting in 2007 (ish??), whenever Classics came out, I think the idea was to make toys that would appeal to adult nostalgia, but still look really cool, and really appeal to kids. I mean I took notice, even though I stopped collecting. For the better part of 2007-2015 as I saw Classics change to Generations, they got more and more appealing, but as I've mentioned many times, I didn't dive back in, until the tail end of CW.

My confusion mostly came from the fact that...If these toys were FOR kids, where were they? I mean when I was a kid, I was probably with my mom 75-80% of the time she got me a new toy, I was the one picking it out (unless it was a holiday gift, in which I obviously wasn't supposed to be there). But in the past several years, I've seen more middle-aged losers like myself browsing the toys aisles like Gollum looking for our precious', than kids with parents.

I mean I do recall happily giving advice on an occasion or two to a hapless parent about what Transformer they should get, but it's been a long time. Again, I 100% believe the toys are intended for kids, and they are the future if a line is going to survive. Maybe just more parents are buying online, or they are buying without the kids present because its easier? I don't know... I guess it's just a different time. Kids are still the target audience, even if they are a phantom one, but it is nice, that Hasbro can occasionally design standard toys, that happen to appeal to adults as well, and have reveal videos for us.

william-james88 wrote:Still, it does mess with my brain when he talks of Marvel Legends because him being worried of the impact and what it says to parents means that there are parents out there spending $30 on a Spider-man Noire figure. Not saying that isn't the case, at all, I just find it crazy that it is. I mean that's more than I'm willing to pay for the present my kids bring to a friend's birthday.

As an adult collector of multiple toy lines, it's hard to judge how the mass market "collector" lines are or are not kids' toys. I assume they all have similar demos of a mix of kids and adults, but I don't have any direct evidence for that. If we grant that Legacy is designed at least in part for kids at the $12, $25, $35, and $55 price points, why couldn't that also apply to Marvel Legends, Star Wars: Black Series, McFarlane's DC Multiverse, and NECA TMNT as well? With the exception of NECA TMNT, those are generally all shelved in the traditional kids toy aisle too, instead of collector sections near electronics in Walmart and Target.

I used to be more confrontational on the kids versus adults point, but I think it's becoming increasingly clear that it's not one versus the other, it's how companies can most effectively reach both. The Legacy character selection, as covered in the related video the other day, suggests that these decisions are collector- and adult-oriented because it's not an important factor for kids. Other times, choices appeal to both sides--I remember being incredulous that Marvel's Boom-Boom was a kid-oriented pick, but someone countered that it was also a bright pink character that would meet a different, non-collector mandate.

I don't know where I was going with this exactly, I think my main take is that the industry and even collector lines are kids toys first, but we also can't act like one market matters and the other doesn't. I've said before with no evidence, just my opinion, that I think what Lego has done in the last couple years will probably become a model for other toy brands in the near future. Specifically, more product designs and branding that explicitly privileges adults over children. I don't know when or if Hasbro will make a Star Wars product that says it's not for children, but when they're selling $300 lightsabers advertised as ages 4 and up, I have to figure it'll happen eventually.

o.supreme wrote:But in the past several years, I've seen more middle-aged losers like myself browsing the toys aisles like Gollum looking for our precious', than kids with parents.

I mean I do recall happily giving advice on an occasion or two to a hapless parent about what Transformer they should get, but it's been a long time.

I may have told this story here before, but I got back into Transformers when I was at university and Beast Wars came out. I was in a Toys 'R Us looking at the Fox Kids repaints collection saying to myself, "How are these older toys on sale? These are a fortune online, what am I missing?" and a school-age kid helpfully told me that they were new, different colors.

Then his mom came up, gave me the nastiest look I've ever gotten in my life, and dragged her kid away while I looked foolish.

I'm relieved the toy aisle works differently these days.

Kinda weird seeing the exclusive deluxes instore before wave 1. I was tempted for Buzz Off but I'm really wary on £23 figures that I need to buy upgrades to look good like sandstorm.

The one thing I find difficult to believe is using Kids as a reason for their choice in Metroplex because I don't know very many kids that can afford $200 for one toy, or parents of said kid who feel it's justifiable for just one toy for one kid. Especially of a very complex item that will likely be broken within a week.

So does that mean 1,000's of little kids only get one toy all year long and it's this? Seems a large stretch to me unless I'm living in a new world where parents have lost all concept of rationale.

Yeah there might be a few spoiled kids who get everything just by asking but if that's the case would they even waste time on Metroplex, an item they most likely won't even see in a store or be aware of? I can't believe it generates enough interest from kids to claim that's why they chose a construction vehicle for his alt mode. Dinosaurs sure as those will be seen in stores and be visible to said kids eliciting a "cool I want that" response.

Till-all-R1 wrote:The one thing I find difficult to believe is using Kids as a reason for their choice in Metroplex because I don't know very many kids that can afford $200 for one toy, or parents of said kid who feel it's justifiable for just one toy for one kid. Especially of a very complex item that will likely be broken within a week.

So does that mean 1,000's of little kids only get one toy all year long and it's this? Seems a large stretch to me unless I'm living in a new world where parents have lost all concept of rationale.

Yeah there might be a few spoiled kids who get everything just by asking but if that's the case would they even waste time on Metroplex, an item they most likely won't even see in a store or be aware of? I can't believe it generates enough interest from kids to claim that's why they chose a construction vehicle for his alt mode. Dinosaurs sure as those will be seen in stores and be visible to said kids eliciting a "cool I want that" response.

I'll admit, their statement regarding Metroplex is the one I find most incredulous. Like I get how they have to adhere to safety regulations not to prevent a parent from buying it, but I wouldn't have thought it mattered more than that. However, to answer your point about some parents have lost all concept of rationale, that's happened. We now live in a new world where young kids ask for IPads for Christmas and get them.


Same with those remote vehicles they can ride that cost 300-500$.some kids today don't know how good they have it.

And AxademyofX, thanks for your reply. I was puzzled a bit because while TFs, SW black series and ML toys are all on those same shelves, TFs are different types of toys, offering the puzzle aspect, which is what hooked me and still keeps me coming back. ML doesn't have that, they are just more expensive versions of characters that are sold for cheaper on neighboring pegs. Plus there's the idea that unlike TFs, which have a whole section in my walmarts, I rarely see Marvel legends toys. We get one wave stocked once or twice and they get wolfed up. I have seen every Transformers toy at retail in one way or another, but those No Way Home Spideys? Never. So those Marvel legends always felt more niche/collector than the generations TFs which can last months on shelves. Basically, I can wait to find most TF toys for my collection on retail shelves, but for Marvel legends I would have to preorder somewhere or else I won't get it.

But I'll be dead honest, I don't really know what I am talking about.

O Supreme, I love your post, will get back to it later.

william-james88 wrote:I'll admit, their statement regarding Metroplex is the one I find most incredulous. Like I get how they have to adhere to safety regulations not to prevent a parent from buying it, but I wouldn't have thought it mattered more than that. However, to answer your point about some parents have lost all concept of rationale, that's happened. We now live in a new world where young kids ask for IPads for Christmas and get them.

You're right. They do. But those same kids still don't get 50 + TOY TOYS random days of the week. It's usually a birthday or a good report card from school. The perceived value of an iPad and all that can be done with it exceeds that of 'average plastic toy' by far.

That rationale concept has some elasticity to it.

Anyway, the conversation is fascinating. Carry on.

sol magnus wrote:

william-james88 wrote:I'll admit, their statement regarding Metroplex is the one I find most incredulous. Like I get how they have to adhere to safety regulations not to prevent a parent from buying it, but I wouldn't have thought it mattered more than that. However, to answer your point about some parents have lost all concept of rationale, that's happened. We now live in a new world where young kids ask for IPads for Christmas and get them.

You're right. They do. But those same kids still don't get 50 + TOY TOYS random days of the week. It's usually a birthday or a good report card from school. The perceived value of an iPad and all that can be done with it exceeds that of 'average plastic toy' by far.

That rationale concept has some elasticity to it.

Anyway, the conversation is fascinating. Carry on.

Exactly this. Metroplex is scheduled to release around November, perfectly timed for the Christmas season where parents would be looking for a big ticket item for their kids, especially the parents who've seen what happens to kids that spend all their time on ipads and want to try and get their kids something fun, big, and most importantly, actually something to stimulate them in a healthy way, not keep them out of your way for a few hours until the battery dies

Sentinel_Primal wrote:

sol magnus wrote:

william-james88 wrote:I'll admit, their statement regarding Metroplex is the one I find most incredulous. Like I get how they have to adhere to safety regulations not to prevent a parent from buying it, but I wouldn't have thought it mattered more than that. However, to answer your point about some parents have lost all concept of rationale, that's happened. We now live in a new world where young kids ask for IPads for Christmas and get them.

You're right. They do. But those same kids still don't get 50 + TOY TOYS random days of the week. It's usually a birthday or a good report card from school. The perceived value of an iPad and all that can be done with it exceeds that of 'average plastic toy' by far.

That rationale concept has some elasticity to it.

Anyway, the conversation is fascinating. Carry on.

Exactly this. Metroplex is scheduled to release around November, perfectly timed for the Christmas season where parents would be looking for a big ticket item for their kids, especially the parents who've seen what happens to kids that spend all their time on ipads and want to try and get their kids something fun, big, and most importantly, actually something to stimulate them in a healthy way, not keep them out of your way for a few hours until the battery dies

I just want to bring this to the discussion, it's not the first time Hasbro has made efforts to promote a
Titan Class toy as something of interest to kids

https://www.seibertron.com/transformers ... pen/36776/

Plus Fort Max was on a bunch of "must have" lists for kids the year he was out and he was sent to influencer parents as well. I remember those campaigns because all it was was companies promoting their biggest most expensive toy, no matter how terrible it was.

And parents would also review him for other parents (not sure if he was provided free of charge by hasbro for these review purposes)
https://toynotes.com/transformers-gener ... mus-review

o.supreme wrote:I mean I do recall happily giving advice on an occasion or two to a hapless parent about what Transformer they should get, but it's been a long time. Again, I 100% believe the toys are intended for kids, and they are the future if a line is going to survive. Maybe just more parents are buying online, or they are buying without the kids present because its easier? I don't know... I guess it's just a different time. Kids are still the target audience, even if they are a phantom one, but it is nice, that Hasbro can occasionally design standard toys, that happen to appeal to adults as well, and have reveal videos for us.

Yeah, that's the reality of it. We are still a big market, big enough to make all those reveal events worth it for them.

About that phantom target audience, I totally get it. I too see kids only sometimes. Though that one time I did see a dad shopping with his kids I was super glad to warn him that those good looking RED figures his kid wanted did not in fact transform (he was very thankful as that would have been a downer).

But back to your comment, it goes beyond the whole legacy line of asking if TF toys are still bought for kids in general. And while we may not see people, we can still see the evidence. You can look at the Cyberverse line. there have been 4 one step wheeljack releases in Cyberverse in the span of a couple years. If none were ever bought, you would see all 4 of them. What about those terrible early warrior class figures of Cyberverse with that Soundwave that didn't have knees. Almost no fans bought it, and these things were made by the ton. But are they still on shelves? No. Neither are the majority of warrior class releases, nor is that voyager starscream or leader Optimus in the pic below. And it's not like these toys were reported in droves to appear at TJMaxx or Ross. So they were bought.




Also, a plethora of fans reported empty shelves the past 3-4 years. Yet they also complained about a huge influx of Cyberverse that they didn't want. Those 2 statements can't coexist, so it means that all those Cyberverse toys sold, leaving empty shelves.

So yeah, we may not see a bunch of kids and their parents buying toys, but we can still witness shelves changing over time in a span of years (since the biggest movement is during the holiday season) proving that the transformers toys made just for kids do in fact sell out.

william-james88 wrote:
I do find it a bit disgusting that some fans are blaming Hasbro's mention of kids as the reason we are getting Cybertron Metroplex over a G1 Metroplex (or over another Titan). UT fans finally have their moment in the sun and it's being trivialized by G1 fans. Sure kids are a mentioned factor, but it's still a big beautiful homage to Cybertron Metroplex that was definitely made with fans in mind. And, FYI, ALL titans are done with kids still in mind, regardless who the target market for that specific toy is. Or else there would not have been mention of whether or not a drop test was done for Fort Max.

I find this really odd because the Unicron Trilogy is older than the Bayverse. Meaning there's many adults whose first TF toys from their childhood are Bayformers. Even more so from the U.T.

That Metroplex must have been quite the nostalgia rush for so many ADULT fans! Fans that are being completely dismissed by those who self proclaim being "true fans."

I'm looking forward the time when the year's titan will be announced as the DOTM Shockwave's worm driller. There will be as much celebration as there will be flowing salt!

We have new images of one of Amazon's 2022 exclusives for the Transformers Legacy line. The theme will be the Wreckers and we now have a good look at what Twin Twist will look like. While he does have the Wrecker symbol, the colours are of his original Diaclone toy. It is still not 100% certain if these toys will be issued in multipacks with other toys or individually but they are set to be Amazon exclusives.

These photos come from a review by Chefatron.

Twin Twist is the one with the "twin drills"

And I kinda like him. I have the original TR Topspin (with minor cosmetic molding defects), never even saw Twin Twist so once the Topspin redeco is revealed they're on my list.

btw Anybody have suggestions on which spare Battle Masters could go with them?

But that's Twin Twist...?

And that deco makes him look like a Happy Meal toy.