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If it were up to me all TFs would look like their preferred media appearance and transform in only 5 steps tops, with full articulation.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:Has there ever been a figure that used fake jet wings for robot mode?

Not a jet, but I think TR Mindwipe count.

I'm surprised at the backlash on this reveal of Legacy Blitzwing. It's not Hasbro or Takara's fault that everyone apparently had a "Mandela Effect" moment concerning the plane cockpit always being there in the front of the tank mode on the original toy and in the cartoon itself. (The thrusters were always there on the back of the tank too, at least on the G1 toy.) We all knew what to expect after the past 3+ years of G1 animation accuracy in our Generations figures.

I do understand the desire for a triple changer that truly has no compromises in any form, a Blitzwing that becomes both a perfectly convincing tank AND jet aircraft. However, consider this. What if the original triple changer toys (and Transformers characters) were never meant to be faithful to real-life vehicles. Maybe both Astrotrain and Blitzwing were designed as fantasy vehicles that can convert on the fly *rimshot* from one form to another. Each form superficially looks like a land or flight-based vehicle, but they're meant to have signs of the other mode visible, because they're utilitarian military vehicles. The function of quick switching supersedes the idea of "disguise" by mimicking a real-life vehicle that cannot convert into alternate forms. Yes, Astrotrain also did this with his alt mode kibble. The train form has space shuttle thrusters on the back. The shuttle form has very poorly hidden train wheels on the belly.

Also, I want to point out that while the War for Cybertron Trilogy and Studio Series '86 figures have definitely been the most screen accurate toys we've gotten of the G1 cartoon models (outside of the Masterpiece series), they're not strictly beholden to the details of the Sunbow character models. They sometimes opt for toy accurate details instead. Legacy Blitzwing has several paint operations that are lifted from the original toy and missing on the cartoon character model. Consider that, to Hasbro and Takara, the plane cockpit in tank mode is just as "iconic" to that mode's look as the faux wings on the robot mold's shoulders, because those details are in all of that character's G1 media and merchandise appearances.

Wolfman Jake wrote:Also, I want to point out that while the War for Cybertron Trilogy and Studio Series '86 figures have definitely been the most screen accurate toys we've gotten of the G1 cartoon models (outside of the Masterpiece series), they're not strictly beholden to the details of the Sunbow character models. They sometimes opt for toy accurate details instead. Legacy Blitzwing has several paint operations that are lifted from the original toy and missing on the cartoon character model. Consider that, to Hasbro and Takara, the plane cockpit in tank mode is just as "iconic" to that mode's look as the faux wings on the robot mold's shoulders, because those details are in all of that character's G1 media and merchandise appearances.

1. Thing is, any aim at resembling the G1 toy's version of the cockpit being there is undercut by the use of red glazing, as well as by the cockpit hanging there naked without any hull surrounding it - something peculiar to the animation model (as is the protrusion, to a degree). In execution, it's this confused messy thing that doesn't know whether it wants to be the toy or the cartoon version.
2. There is nothing "iconic" about fake wings behind the robot mode's shoulders. Wings, yes. Fake wings, no. And as we saw with Titans Return... Fake. Wings. Are. Not. Needed. For. The. Look.

I don't think anybody was expecting a perfect Blitzwing. If anyone was, they were delusional. But I think it was reasonable to expect a Blitzwing that didn't make himself even more messy than the original (especially the jet mode) for worthlessly-minuscule aesthetic (and only aesthetic) gain in robot mode. It's not like with Astrotrain, where it results from function; the mandate for full-length, rocker-equipped feet required shifting the train kibble forward so that the front end could be tucked in and make way for the dome to fold down to be said feet, and that left the backpack reduced to a plate that couldn't cover the head in shuttle mode and forced the chest to have to flip back (instead of just the tailfin sliding back) to cover the distance.

Every further compromise made to Blitzwing, on the other hand, stems aesthetics. Especially from pulling a TR Mindwipe with him under the delusion that fake wings were needed to achieve the look.

They're also more blatant than the Titans Return version, where they were under the back as with G1. And the TR version even duplicated the G1 toy's lamps.

Pretty happy with the g1 toy tbf other than bot mode arms. The nose cone/battering ram thing wasn't as out of place and with the turret being adjustable it could make it less of a top down eye sore at the expense of visible screws. Kinda surprised hasbro didn't emulate the visible screws of the toy haha.

Did the animators draw him backwards in the day? Because the g1 toys facing in tank mode is pretty versatile but slightly favors the cockpit to the rear for a front view of treads.

Legacys Blitzwing sadly isn't as metal as g1 despite costing more metal (if paying in coins). Sadly I have a thing for Blitzwing repaints or the the weird ko ones that were half bulldozer so I might end up with a selects repaint if cheap enough.

To be honest, I can live with the tank cockpit thing. But the tank treads in Jet mode? I hope a mistransform then :/ That said I still hotly anticipate an Astrotrain.

But in the end a phenomenal robot mode. I just can't get behind the TR line's treatment of non Headmaster-characters.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:
If it's iconic to the Hasbro designers then their priorities may be misplaced.

Or, yours might. I mean, anybody's might depending on what they want because it's all subjective. That's kind of the point of questioning the backlash.

At this point I just want to talk about other stuff. No one is changing anyone's mind, but I'm sure just like with other figures that started out hated some of you will be saying 'well, I broke down and got a Bltizwing and WOWGIZOROWLAWOW he's great!

In any case, my Skids pre-ordered from Amazon.com is due to arrive on April 2.

sol magnus wrote:
In any case, my Skids pre-ordered from Amazon.com is due to arrive on April 2.

My Skids and Arcee are due Monday.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I don't think mine are. Sure it's subjective, but nobody talking about it seems to be thrilled it's there. At best I'm seeing people as being tolerant.

If it were an iconic part of his alt mode, I think people would be as happy about seeing it there as they were with Netflix Bee's alt. mode. Unless you're seeing posts I haven't about how much it adds to the look.

Here's the thing, though. You don't have to believe that cockpit on the tank mode is iconic. That's because, you didn't make this. A team of engineers and artists at Hasbro and Takara did. You're just a consumer. There is always going to be a disconnect between the artist and the consumer of the art.

Wolfman Jake wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I don't think mine are. Sure it's subjective, but nobody talking about it seems to be thrilled it's there. At best I'm seeing people as being tolerant.

If it were an iconic part of his alt mode, I think people would be as happy about seeing it there as they were with Netflix Bee's alt. mode. Unless you're seeing posts I haven't about how much it adds to the look.

Here's the thing, though. You don't have to believe that cockpit on the tank mode is iconic. That's because, you didn't make this. A team of engineers and artists at Hasbro and Takara did. You're just a consumer. There is always going to be a disconnect between the artist and the consumer of the art.

Finally a voice of reason amidst all this whining

I'm really enjoying Legacy Bulkhead so far. While hunting for BB Silverstreak earlier this week, I came upon a lone Legacy Bulkhead on the shelf at a Target. It was the ONLY Legacy product on the shelf so far, except for another lone Bulkhead that appeared at the same Target a few days later. No Blaster. No other size classes.

Anyway, the figure itself is great. It's everything I wanted from a "Generations" style Bulkhead figure. I love the character and have had the Prime: First Edition figure on my display shelf for years, serving as the "G1" version of the character a la the first IDW continuity. That was a great figure, with a fun transformation with just enough clever tricks. However, he just looked out of place being of a completely different art style. This new one now gives us a "proper" G1 version of Bulkhead that could have existed back in the original continuity (cartoon/toyline/Marvel comics). I'm happy to say that the transformation, while different, is still extremely satisfying and has some clever steps to it. Everything really fits together nicely in both modes, with lots of tight tabs and good space management. Even better, the military truck alt mode and blockier robot mode now give us a sort of "Live Action Movie Hound" figure in G1, another character I particularly enjoy, without confusing the existence of G1 Hound in the Generations line.

The accessories are fun too. I love that the spiky wrecking ball surrounds the fist instead of replacing it. The truck bed canopy makes for a great riot shield. The only minor disappointment is the energon weapon, which doesn't peg into it's hole for shoulder mounting very securely. It just falls right off on my copy if the figure is moved too much. I also appreciate that, for those who just detest partsforming, the canopy doesn't have to be removed to convert the figure between modes, but it can be, and it does help.

I know some people wish this Bulkhead were rounder, but I think he's still a perfectly chonky bot, just more in the G1 "boxy" sense than the curvier, rounder, features of many Prime character models. The head and face sculpt are terrific, though, conveying the continuity of this character from his home continuity, showing the same character who is both rough and tough and tender and kind. This has been a great first dip into Legacy for me (or second, if you count Kingdom Blaster), and I'm ready for more!

I really want Bulkhead but I canceled my order in case the one coming out in the subline with energon monsters looks better to me. Maybe he'll be in TF:A color scheme so I'm gonna wait it out to avoid double dipping

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

Wolfman Jake wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I don't think mine are. Sure it's subjective, but nobody talking about it seems to be thrilled it's there. At best I'm seeing people as being tolerant.

If it were an iconic part of his alt mode, I think people would be as happy about seeing it there as they were with Netflix Bee's alt. mode. Unless you're seeing posts I haven't about how much it adds to the look.

Here's the thing, though. You don't have to believe that cockpit on the tank mode is iconic. That's because, you didn't make this. A team of engineers and artists at Hasbro and Takara did. You're just a consumer. There is always going to be a disconnect between the artist and the consumer of the art.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what the artist thinks. When they put a thing out there, it's out there to be digested or analyzed as anyone sees fit. In large part the artist's intent no longer matters.

If this were an iconic part of the design I don't think we'd see any debate in regards to it's inclusion; it would be taken for granted.

Yes, you can critique anything you want. You can like or dislike whatever piece of art you consume, but that doesn’t invalidate artistic intent. The artist made what they did according to their vision. It’s not their job, or even within their ability, to create something that pleases everyone or evokes the same emotions and ideas in every consumer. The inclusion of the cockpit in Blitzwing’s tank mode is iconic to the artists who designed it, whether or not that meets your (or anyone else’s) expectations of “iconic.”

One thing is sure.

I do LOVE the tank having the jet thrusters. It make s for a turbo train.
But that fakeout nosecone in the tank is ridiculous.

The jet looks like an absolute mess.

As for the fake wings for the bot mode, why not? I think it's brilliant. But were they truly a necessity because the vehicles certainly don't benefit from that.

Im gonna talk about a few points and didnt feel like cluttering the thread up with quotes and such;

First, Blitzwing, I love the way it looks. Although I dont like faux parts and much prefer if they just used the actual cockpit, for example. SS86's Hot Rod is one I actually like the faux hood for the chest. He is a rare example though, as physics as we know them, wont allow it any other way really. I am one of those "weirdo" G1 guys who wants my figures to looks like they jumped out of the TV or comic. Animation flaws and all, for the most part. This goes for Beast Wars figures and the rest as well. That is why I am super pumped for Menasor, he is my fav combiner(Computron is my fav one). Now with that said I do hope they make it look good, like the version with cars making up the acual arms more that bend at the elbow. The CW Menasor just didnt cut it and that came down to Motor Master mainly. Legacy Drag Strip is amazing looking, so I have high hopes so far.

On FFoD and it being Shockwave instead of Bliztwing, and Octane. I am very glad it came about that way. It turned Octane from just a cool toy as a kid to prolly my fav . It just doesnt seem to fit Sunbow Shockwave to betray and join the . Even if he is really only loyal to Cybertron. That memo is interesting, in a funny SELL TOYS kinda way.

All that said, I may not buy Blitzwing, not because it looks bad, it looks great, but because I have the T30 one already. I like its looks, enough to tolerate, and the TF:Animated nod, plus Leader price is a bit too much for me as Blitzwing is not one of my favs enough to replace at that price. Same as I didnt update to the new Astrotrain from my Legends one, even though I really like Astrotrain. Now if they did make a new Octane I would be ecstatic but it would have to blow me away to beat my Legends Octane. So there is my rambling on the matter(for those who care to read it) to add to the "loves Blitzwings look and wants screen/comic accuracy" on my figures vote.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:I'm still confused as to why Bulkhead appears to be the one figure that really did not follow his universe of origin design. Everyone else is different stylistically but sort of close (Arcee), pretty dang close (G2 Prime), or utterly slavish (Blitzwing as we've seen), but Bulkhead isn't any of those. That's always been my hangup with him: Prime Universe, but the only thing alike is the head and mace.

I have checked my stores yesterday, still no sign of Legacy, though at this point I'm mainly only looking for Iguanus.

The prevailing theory on TFW was that he was a pretool for an Optimus Prime that was going to be released as a tie-in with the likely-cancelled Rise game, like how the Legacy Armada Starscream is apparently also a retool of the Starscream from that same line

Gauntlet101010 wrote:It's fine if the artist thinks it's iconic, but that doesn't make it iconic. Anyone can have an opinion on what's iconic, but that doesn't mean that thing actually is iconic. I question your labelling.

Plus, do you have an interview where the designer actually think it's an iconic part of Blitz's design? It seems like an assumption you're making based on it's presence on this toy. That alone doesn't mean anything except that the team thought it should be included. As for their artistic intent, it doesn't matter. I get what their going for. What matters are results.

The difference here is that these designers are using what's been "standard" and a very common part of this character's design. "Iconic" in terms of personal interpretation is of course subjective.
Imo, and I think a ton of people would agree, "iconic" involves the aspect of a span of time.
The fact that this is a design element that is now being used 35-ish years after the original creation...
And that this design decision was clearly intentional...
I would most definitely say this qualifies as an iconic design element for this character, no matter anyone else's opinion, or a lack of "designer interview"...
The proof is literally in the result.