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[-Kanrabat-]

I'm all for LGBT representation in media. But when they did sexually explicit shows for toddlers as if it's the most normal thing in the world, that's when the straw that broke the camel's back for many.

Define "Sexually Explicit"

Do you really want to know?

Lap-dance, stripping, pole grinding, jumping around with a foot long stra-on, simulated sex acts, "It's not gonna lick itself," a 10yo doing "sexy drag dance" while receiving cash from the exited public, the works.

It's a "best of" many videos floating around. Videos that would get me banned if I post them here. They are out there. Look them up.
If you think you can stomach them.

Seems to me a lot of this "outrage" is from people who are too **** lazy to do their own **** parenting and rely on the TV as a babysitter then get upset when the babysitter doesn't share their morals.

I agree 100%.
As if the Elsagate thing is already forgotten.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

I'm all for LGBT representation in media. But when they did sexually explicit shows for toddlers as if it's the most normal thing in the world, that's when the straw that broke the camel's back for many.

Define "Sexually Explicit"

Do you really want to know?

Just so we're on the same page, and it seems we are. I'm just wondering what the shows in the question are O wait... If they're "reality shows", dude, stay away from them!

[-Kanrabat-]

I'm all for LGBT representation in media. But when they did sexually explicit shows for toddlers as if it's the most normal thing in the world, that's when the straw that broke the camel's back for many.

Define "Sexually Explicit"

Do you really want to know?

Just so we're on the same page, and it seems we are. I'm just wondering what the shows in the question are O wait... If they're "reality shows", dude, stay away from them!

LIVE shows. Not on TV but in clubs or even schools. The videos are from people who filmed them with their smartphones. Then those videos spread around and woke up many people to what's going on behind closed doors.

Here's an example.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

LIVE shows. Not on TV but in clubs or even schools. The videos are from people who filmed them with their smartphones. Then those videos spread around and woke up many people to what's going on behind closed doors.

Wow... and I thought beauty pageants for toddlers were bad. But pinning this solely on the performers (who should have known better)? NO, I'd be aiming my arrows at everyone involved no matter who they are or whatever supposed social status they may have. Heads WILL roll.

[-Kanrabat-]

LIVE shows. Not on TV but in clubs or even schools. The videos are from people who filmed them with their smartphones. Then those videos spread around and woke up many people to what's going on behind closed doors.

Wow... and I thought beauty pageants for toddlers were bad. But pinning this solely on the performers (who should have known better)? NO, I'd be aiming my arrows at everyone involved no matter who they are or whatever supposed social status they may have. Heads WILL roll.

Exactly. The performers are guilty, sure. But the worst are the organisers and especially the PARENTS who brought their child to such shows. Everyone involved should know better but they are blinded by the woke cult. The ideology is more important than basic common sense.

[Burn]

Wow... and I thought beauty pageants for toddlers were bad.

They are. They blatantly sexualise toddlers all the way up to adulthood but not one seems to get outraged over them like they do pronouns.

[-Kanrabat-]

Wow... and I thought beauty pageants for toddlers were bad.

They are. They blatantly sexualise toddlers all the way up to adulthood but not one seems to get outraged over them like they do pronouns.

Oh the outrage is there.
But money is louder it seems.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

Still, I wouldn't consider this particular instance in Earthspark part of it all as that would be unwarranted bias through unfair correlation. Where was she when Buzz Lightyear ran in theaters?

To put this thread back on track, would I show that particular Earthspark clip to children? I would, but to 6 and older only (in the Netherlands we have a MG-6 rating, which means "For Children 6 and up, Parents advised to watch with" kinda like your TV-PG or even TV-Y7).

[-Kanrabat-]

Still, I wouldn't consider this particular instance in Earthspark part of it all as that would be unwarranted bias through unfair correlation. Where was she when Buzz Lightyear ran in theaters?

Probably doing something else rather than watching that movie, like most people did.

[Burn]

To put this thread back on track, would I show that particular Earthspark clip to children? I would, but to 6 and older only (in the Netherlands we have a MG-6 rating, which means "For Children 6 and up, Parents advised to watch with" kinda like your TV-PG or even TV-Y7).

And therein lies the problem. How many parents will sit down with their children to watch?

[Dr. Caelus]

This is old school gaslighting.

A character in a cartoon identifies as 'they' because thwir gender identity is not dependent on the sexual male/female binary. The character is a nonsexual being rejecting social norms that dictate we must sexualize ourselves to placate others.

But somehow that is sexualizing children.

Teaching kids that boys and girls should dress in particular ways isn't sexualizing them. Telling boys to mind a six inch rule isn't sexualizing them. Raising kids to believe that gender is sex and there are only two sexes is somehow not sexualizing them, but showing characters who refuse to conform to that trash is.

And why?

What's the proof?

Something someone supposedly filmed behind closed doors somewhere sometime. Something scandalous that woke people are supposedly all running around doing, but that only the anti-woke people seem to actually be aware of.

And that something was wholly unrelated to anything, except insofar as it reeks of pedophilia and they really, really want you to believe that anyone not in-line with the baby-mill wagon is a pedophile.

[chuckdawg1999]

:roll: Major Rant incoming (Since We decided we had to make a news article that clearly talks about politics, don't be surprised that I talk about politics. )

You know, I generally watch/play/read media to ESCAPE the real-world/overly political side of things. I watched up to maybe episode 4 of Earthspark (a show which I wasn't entirely enjoying to be honest) before I said I'd take a break. Found out a while later that Nightshade fell into the political vat, and I decided the show wasn't worth my time. It doesn't matter how you try to spin it in the show about how it "makes sense", because it's the year 2023, and I know the real-world reason why it's being done. Of course adding identity- politics into a show which, let's be honest, the target demographic being children, I find to be underhanded. It's not just Transformers either; many cartoons, comics, games, movies, etc. of ESTABLISHED IPS have more or less been up-ended for "modern" audiences, and said IPs (and the fans that made them what they are) are the ones that suffer in quality and/or revenue. I sure most will see it as innocent and don't see the harm in a sentient robot referring to himself as "they" (even though grammatically it's disingenuous), but it more or less tells kids that this type of behavior is acceptable. I know a lot of parents who are just tired of having identity politics entrenched in their kids' entertainment (even education), and even adults who steer clear of media with it now.

In the end, all I'll say, is keep identity-politics out of entertainment.

Also, I would respectfully request that we refrain from bringing up topics like this again in the future, since I know people on both sides can be very "passionate" about their views, and civil discussions aren't always on the minds of most who wander on the forums.

Months ago, the promo articles had the show writers/producers saying that the purpose of Earthspark was 'to re-define what it meant to be a family'. That was when I suspected it was going to be sub-par, because they were investing their energy into a desire to participate in social restructuring, rather than on quality storytelling.

I'm sure it's not a bad series. But it hasn't been a quantum leap of awesomeness. There was never any huge groundswell from fans of the Transformers franchise, begging Hollywood to use the brand as a puppet to 'redefine the family', or to re-invent grammar so that pronouns would be subject to individual interpretation. Hollywood made a conscious decision to use this show to influence these issues (however gently) by telling viewers what they should want, instead of giving audiences what they actually want. And viewers will eventually show resentment for that kind of presumption, in the form of lower ratings and sales.

Exactly. That's why so many shows nowadays suffer, the writers are more concerned about getting a message across than telling a compelling story and working a few ideas in that way. Like I said in a previous post, "Golden Lagoon" and "God Gambit" were brilliant at this.

[-Kanrabat-]

I forgot mentioning the real reason why the "they/they" pronoms nag ME so much. No matter where it's used.

I'm from a latin language people. My native language is FRENCH.
In French, like for Espanyol or Italian, or any other latin language, EVERYTHING IS GENDERED.
I mean, literally everything. A table is female, the sun is male, a TV is either male or female depending how you call it, and so on. Even concepts like "it is hot" are male or female like "il fait chaud" (male-pronoun is hot.)

The only way a "they/they" could be translated into French would be by either the MALE pronoun "il", as in the general "he" to designate anything by default, or the very unnatural sounding and truly dehumanising "ça" or "it". If that robot call himself "it", well, it just consider itself like a soulless object.

I wonder how the show creators handled that "they/they" conundrum for the French, Espanyol, Italian, and so on versions?

Oh, by the way, that whole LATINX thing... Never, ever use it outside of a college campus. For your own safety.

[Cliff Jumper]

I agree with Meghan Kelly on this. It is disgusting, because it is a lie. I care about the truth. The truth is there are two sexes and no such thing as gender outside of linguistics. Gender seems to have been confused with modern caricatures of masculinity and femininity which in turn are pale imitations of authentic masculinity and femininity.

To present the idea of some kind of gender spectrum to children is a lie, and serves only to confuse children. Children have a right to know the truth including whether they are a boy or a girl. If they feel one way or the other it is the right thing to love them by willing their good. This means helping them to come to accept and love themselves as they really are. It does not mean placating a disordered idea.

[Sabrblade]

I forgot mentioning the real reason why the "they/they" pronoms nag ME so much. No matter where it's used.

I'm from a latin language people. My native language is FRENCH.
In French, like for Espanyol or Italian, or any other latin language, EVERYTHING IS GENDERED.
I mean, literally everything. A table is female, the sun is male, a TV is either male or female depending how you call it, and so on. Even concepts like "it is hot" are male or female like "il fait chaud" (male-pronoun is hot.)

The only way a "they/they" could be translated into French would be by either the MALE pronoun "il", as in the general "he" to designate anything by default, or the very unnatural sounding and truly dehumanising "ça" or "it". If that robot call himself "it", well, it just consider itself like a soulless object.

I wonder how the show creators handled that "they/they" conundrum for the French, Espanyol, Italian, and so on versions?

Oh, by the way, that whole LATINX thing... Never, ever use it outside of a college campus. For your own safety.

We can probably check how the French, Spanish, Italian, etc. dubs handled Nightshade if someone here who has Paramount+ could simply switch the audio from English to one of those languages if they are on there.

Netflix and Disney+ both have additional language audio options for the shows on them, so if Paramount+ does as well, then we may be able to check.

[-Kanrabat-]

But somehow that is sexualizing children.

That may be the argument of some people, but it's a badly worded one.

Children are impressionable creature who will take EVERYTHING at face value. It's the age they believe in Santa Claus or the monster under the bed.

Gender is complicated as it is for a child without throwing useless concepts and "spectrums" onto them. Especially when they hit the difficult times of puberty. There are basic and grounded things with gender that needed to be teach in order to make stable individuals. Then it's important to also teach that it's fine to like "boy things" if you're a girl or vice-versa, but it won't make you a "boy" or vice-versa.

The whole "gender is a spectrum" thing is just cultist mumbo-jumbo that is as bad if not worse than the traditional religion. It confound PERSONALITY with gender, which is INSANE. This is even worse when the child is groomed by Munchausen by proxy afflicted parent into "transitioning" their child at an early age, resulting into irreversible damages both psychological and physical for the child. Like for the tragedy of Jazz Jennings.

I'll say it again. The "they/they" robot is not "sexualizing" children. But it's very confusing to them (or anyone for that matter). Like a beaver with top scars or drag queens have no place in a CHILDREN show.

[Burn]

But it's very confusing to them (or anyone for that matter).

Again, parenting. Cartoons are not the ideal choice for babysitting or educating. Sit with the kids, watch it with them, and if they have any questions, answer them. Parents should brainwash/indoctrinate kids into their own brand of hate themselves.

[william-james88]

I did some cleanup in this thread before, I'll do some more. Not about the discussion, but about the attacks leading nowhere.

[william-james88]

It is disgusting, because it is a lie. I care about the truth. The truth is there are two sexes and no such thing as gender outside of linguistics.

The truth is there are officially 3 sexes according to today's science. I don't know why you are ignoring people who are intersex, an enveloping term related to people born with sex characteristics that are both male and female.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

And due to errors when cells replicating, there are a myriad of possibilities for the X and Y chromosome to end up within people.

https://genetic.org/variations/

Also, I wonder. Can you tell me WHAT IS A WOMAN?
Are you smarter/braver than these politicians?

I never thought of myself as smart or brave, so I'm not sure how I'd answer. It's not as easy as I thought it would be, if I'm honest. Would you have an answer to that question that wouldn't exclude someone you'd consider a woman?

[william-james88]

But it's very confusing to them (or anyone for that matter).

Again, parenting. Cartoons are not the ideal choice for babysitting or educating. Sit with the kids, watch it with them, and if they have any questions, answer them. Parents should brainwash/indoctrinate kids into their own brand of hate themselves.

Want to hear a funny one, Burn? My 5 year old son tells me the other day: "Dad, you like Transformers and Batman, wow that's the same things I like!"

[Burn]

But it's very confusing to them (or anyone for that matter).

Again, parenting. Cartoons are not the ideal choice for babysitting or educating. Sit with the kids, watch it with them, and if they have any questions, answer them. Parents should brainwash/indoctrinate kids into their own brand of hate themselves.

Want to hear a funny one, Burn? My 5 year old son tells me the other day: "Dad, you like Transformers and Batman, wow that's the same things I like!"

Not surprising. They're around you, they're going to pick up your likes and dislikes and then some of their own.

It's almost like Stockholm Syndrome ...

[Bumblevivisector]

But it's very confusing to them (or anyone for that matter).

Again, parenting. Cartoons are not the ideal choice for babysitting or educating. Sit with the kids, watch it with them, and if they have any questions, answer them. Parents should brainwash/indoctrinate kids into their own brand of hate themselves.

Want to hear a funny one, Burn? My 5 year old son tells me the other day: "Dad, you like Transformers and Batman, wow that's the same things I like!"

Not surprising. They're around you, they're going to pick up your likes and dislikes and then some of their own.

It's almost like Stockholm Syndrome ...

Ah yes, like how I came to love the Frozen soundtrack from hearing it on a continuous loop at my Toys'R'Us, because Stockholm's close to Arendelle and...oh, right, my case isn't the exact same thing.

[Dr. Caelus]

But it's very confusing to them (or anyone for that matter).

Again, parenting. Cartoons are not the ideal choice for babysitting or educating. Sit with the kids, watch it with them, and if they have any questions, answer them. Parents should brainwash/indoctrinate kids into their own brand of hate themselves.

Want to hear a funny one, Burn? My 5 year old son tells me the other day: "Dad, you like Transformers and Batman, wow that's the same things I like!"

Not surprising. They're around you, they're going to pick up your likes and dislikes and then some of their own.

It's almost like Stockholm Syndrome ...

I'm rewatching Beast Wars now for two reasons:

1. I said our 3yo wasn't old enough to watch it without an adult. By extension, that means that if our child does manage to convince me that TV time is warranted, then I have to stop whatever else I'm doing and sit down to supervise. Which I'm certain was the actual goal of demanding Beast Wars to begin with.

2. About a year ago, when fielding questions about Transformers, my wife said that the bad guys have red eyes and the good guys have blue eyes. Our toddler decided to key in on the 'good guys have blue eyes'. I tried to explain that a whole world war was fought largely on the premise that that was not true. After taking stock of eye colors of people we know, the point got across, but our child still revels in opportunities to point out things that contradict me, so when we watched Cyberverse it dredged the whole issue up again. Beast Wars will, hopefully, put the issue to rest for at least a while, since almost everyone has red eyes.

My great sadness is that it took such a short amount of time for 3yo to correct pronunciation from "Cheetoh" to "Cheetor" and to stop shouting the name every time the character appeared on screen.

Cheetoh! Cheetoh. Cheetoh. Cheetoh-Cheetoh-Cheetoh. ...Cheetoh!

[TFfan1]

[quote="william-james88"

I did not say what I am personally for or against at all, and you do not know me, you do not know what kind of relationship I am in, so please do not put words in my mouth. If I wrote something in a way that you feel was disrespectful, please know that english is my second language, I meant no ill will towards anyone.
My goal was to answer someone who was using "parent's choice" as a factor in the argument currently going on, and gave examples to illustrate the paradigm shift. Nothing more, nothing less. I never gave my own opinion on the matter. Parent's choice to let their kids know about these topics is not an argument in this scenario since it does not exist. As you stated, these people exist, and kids will know of their existence despite whatever their parents want them to know or not know.

If you want to know my personal opinion, you can reach out to me via private message as I feel that is the better spot for that.

Regarding this show itself, I have no issue with it. I just want good transformers toys of these characters. I do find it interesting though that it took a media presence to increase the level of interaction on this specific topic, when it's a transformers site and the episode has been around for months. I get that people over 60 are just talking about this now, but why wasn't this discussion happening months ago here?

You are right, and I owe you an apology.

[Cyber Bishop]

FWIW, your comments sort of dug a nihilistic trench that might serve as a firebreak, so it'll be interesting to see if this thread doesn't go all the way to hell. Thanks C.B.

Hmmm Maybe they do come across a bit nihilistic but after the crap from the past 4.5 years it has pushed me to it.
Don't worry though others can drag it to the 10th level of hell as my issue is a tad different than theirs. and after looking through looks like some have.
And you are welcome.

a doctrine or belief that conditions in the social organization are so bad as to make destruction desirable for its own sake independent of any constructive program or possibility

In today's society very few know what consequences befall their actions so they act in whatever way with zero fear of recourse. Recourse needs to come back, you troll IRL/online/etc.., you get the crap stomped out of you, no one knows what it feels like anymore to look into someone's eyes that have done them wrong and headbutt their front teeth out (unfortunately I have done this before and yes I was relieved in their pain and had zero regrets). In other words cause and effect. Is it brutal sure but so many think they can get away by saying whatever they want and be safe, that needs to change. something needs to put fear back into the masses, maybe a cataclysm? asteroid, massive destruction and then MAYBE people will learn how to be civil towards others.


As for earthspark, I tried but just didn't get into it, just not my cup o' tea.