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william-james88 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:I've been a kid who buys and plays with Transformers for DECADES!

Me too! A wise man once said we don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing!

Great words indeed!

Nemesis Destron wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:I've been a kid who buys and plays with Transformers for DECADES!

Me too! A wise man once said we don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing!

Great words indeed!

A wise T-shirt once said, "Growing old is mandatory, growing up in optional."

And in the words of Dr. Heathcliff Huxtable, "We're all someone's child."

william-james88 wrote:Thanks to this Twitter post, we have news that the third wave of Transformers Studio Series core class figures have been found in the US. That includes Wheelie and Ratchet. If anyone is wondering, the only new core class figure in wave 2 was Exosuit Spike and in wave 4 we will have the DOTM Laserbeak (Bumblebee predeco toy) and SS86 Rumble (blue). The toys were found in a Target in Idaho but other subsequent sightings have popped up over the US, like in California. AHM Joy is the person who posted this sighting on Twitter.

Always bugs me when another part of the country is two waves ahead of my neck of the woods. Makes me think my area is going to end up skipping an entire wave, which has happened more than I would have thought possible in the last decade.

Of course, once I break down and buy something online, that's when it shows up in my city.

Glarryg

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:I may have an unpopular opinion, but all that clear plastics everywhere worries me. Especially so many JOINTS are clear. Plus that clear plastic painted red over just won't color match anything.

There should have been NO clear parts at all with the windows painted a kind of blue instead. It would have been even more "cartoon accurate" and it would have been more solid.

Yeah, I feel like a lot of people who speak in favor of translucent windows wouldn't do so as much if the original Diaclone molds had had opaque windows from the get-go instead.

For Ironhide and Ratchet, no "Diaclone" arguments hold any grounds for some... Obvious reasons.



Regardless, I non-ironically want an updated version of that exact toy. Roof-sled, goblin proportions, head behind the windsheild, and all that jazz. Add improved articulations and BAM! Truly "Diaclone" Ratchet/Ironhide!

Ratchet was my first and I chose becuase I saw it as getting 2 for 1, I like the fact that people want to have this design, and I’m sure there is an updated design with the windsheild in this position that looks good

william-james88 wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:I just think collectors weigh-in more than they'll admit (or know).

They don't. And we all have the evidence staring at us in the face whenever anyone complains about shelfwarming. If collectors were buying up all the figures from generations and studio series, then we wouldn't see them much in stores, they would sell out. But they don't.
You can prove me wrong and buy every SS figure you see if you want.

Will, I hope you know I respect you and your opinions.
But this point in your example doesn't even make sense.

Here's what you're not considering--
Even though there are obviously exponentially fewer collectors than other consumers combined, that still doesn't mean that of the TF figures that actually sell, that only 30% of those purchases were made by collectors.
In fact in a lot of cases, I'd say it's the complete opposite.
While I truly believe this applies to any character of any class, here are a couple examples:

If there are 10 SS86 Starscreams at my Target (which there still are ), and 3 of them sell, I'm willing to bet that 2 if not all 3 of those purchases were made by collectors.
7 being left on the shelf doesn't mean collectors didn't buy, or that not enough collectors bought the figure; it most likely means that no one from any other consumer group was willing to bite. It also points to the idea that Coronation Starscream really is more aimed at collectors period.
Sometimes I think collectors tend to forget that the average adult doesn't know much if anything about TF. Even those who enjoyed the live action movies, that doesn't mean much, let alone that they'll go out and want to spend money on related products/merchandise.
Kids today would know even less (if anything) about the realm of Transformers.
Believe it or not, not all kids watch the movies or whatever Cyberverse cartoon has been on tv.

My other example is based on figures such as Blaster, Wreck-gar, Scourge, and well, any of them.
Soundwave, Cosmos, Galvatron...
Collector: "Finally, a good update of Blaster!!"
Average adult: "Why would a robot turn into a boombox?"
Kid: "What's a 'boombox', and why would I play with this?"
Everyone: "Why is this $33??"

The average kid, even kids my sons ages (teens an pre-teens) would look at those alt modes and be puzzled. Not at what they are, but the why of them. And sure, people who really know these characters could explain the "why" behind them.
But it's really fair to ask questions like, "Why would a robot turn into a radio?... Is there one that's a robo-room vacuum like the one we have at home?"
"That's supposed to be a spaceship?"
"Why would a motorcycle have bumps on the tires, and why is it those ugly earth tone colors?"
"Who is Spike Witwicky, and what the hell is an exo-suit?"

Last year when I finally got Red Alert, my younger son thought it was hilariously dumb to think a fire department would have a Lambo.
So even with characters that transform into vehicles...
"What's the point of a robot turning into a tiny semi-truck that doesn't have a trailer?"

I mean, here there are adults over-analyzing the height of this new Ironhide, and the appearance of the van mode.
But consider what the average kid would think about this figure...
"So this robot turns into a weird red van... Cool, dad... Does he have 3 robot kids and go to the grocery store every week?".

The point of this being, collectors enjoy, and maybe love and obsess over this stuff without even thinking.
Anyone and everyone else most likely doesn't... At all.
So to think it's that common these days (or ever) for a kid or parent to walk into a store and feel a pull to spend $24, $32, $54, or even $12 on a toy they have little to no knowledge, association, or like of/for... Being a parent, in the middle-class Midwest, I just don't believe this is the norm anywhere.

Then it has to be considered that it's usually collectors that buy multiples and army build...
Does anyone really think that an average kid or adult buys two of the same TF figure so they can have 1 in bot mode and 1 in alt mode? Or that anyone outside of collecting would buy a toy and keep it sealed?
How many kids or adults thought it was at all necessary or relevant to buy a Scourge and 2-3 Sweeps?
I bought 5 Sharkticons... You think the average kid or adult would even think to do that? To spend > $130 to have 5 of the same figure?

So while obviously I can't put a concrete ratio or percentage on it, a single collector is spending exponentially more than multiple kids and parents combined.
Here I'm planning on buying 2 of each of the Legacy Stunticons, and two each of the SS86 Dinobots... At $50+ each, how many average kids will end up getting more than 1 of these 5 Dinobots? Or one of them at all??


The other point is that collectors have had a heavy influence on the direction of the Generation and SS TF toys.
The huge push to continue making figures of characters from G1 AND the priority of cartoon-model accuracy isn't for kids.
Without adult insight/influence, kids (even younger kids 7-9) who have seen the live action movies wouldn't be able to recognize most (not all, but most) of those characters in their G1 forms, let alone any characters who aren't in those movies... If a kid wanted a TF who's alt mode is a Porsche-esque car, do you think he or she gives a crap if the robot is a specific character like Jazz??

You think it's average kids and adults who are pleading for the Generations line to branch-out into series/universes beyond G1?
The average kid and adult would probably guess the term "G1" is something related to age-group labels like GenX and GenZ!
"Armada", "Cybertron"... Most people have no clue these are related to TF, let alone any of their important details. So it's literally impossible for these canon elements to influence a purchase for an average consumer. So why is Hastak doing this??



I'm not trying to claim that collectors make up 90, or even 80% of total TF sales for the Generations and SS lines. Who knows, it may be under 70%.
But it has to be way more than 30%.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

DeathReviews wrote:The simple truth when you boil it all down, is that Hasbro is reacting to the global economic downturn by charging us more, and giving us less. Like many other companies, they are jacking up their prices to cover the increased costs of production and distribution. They are also trying to disguise it (or make it slightly less overt) by keeping the price CLOSE to what it was before, but reducing the amount of product you get. Also with rhetorical shell games about 'engineering levels' and 'part counts'. But as the saying goes, no matter how thin you slice it, it's still baloney.

That process clearly began in the R.I.D. Prime / Generations F.O.C years.
The toys were getting smaller and cheaper but the prices remained the same. Then as the prices increased, the quality went up in Generations T-30. But before the quality took a nosedive again, the massive price hikes began with the movie toys in TLK.

Now, not only do the toys became smaller again, but the next mega price hike is also already starting. Canadian Toys R Us is the prelude.

Exactly. I really don't get the mentality of people that accept the 'More for less' ethos of Hasbro (and Takara). One that has been in place for several years. You see it worst in their more expensive figures. For example, flawed MP's that they only bothered to finish in one altmode and/or released with known defects.

Buying into the parts count and other such marketing spiel, you are only fooling yourself.

Also, as I've said for years. The G1 cord needs to be cut at some stage, or Transformers will continue to stagnate long after the last Gewunner is gone.

Sowndwave76 wrote:Here's what you're not considering--
Even though there are obviously exponentially fewer collectors than other consumers combined, that still doesn't mean that of the TF figures that actually sell, that only 30% of those purchases were made by collectors.
In fact in a lot of cases, I'd say it's the complete opposite.
While I truly believe this applies to any character of any class, here are a couple examples:

If there are 10 SS86 Starscreams at my Target (which there still are ), and 3 of them sell, I'm willing to bet that 2 if not all 3 of those purchases were made by collectors.
7 being left on the shelf doesn't mean collectors didn't buy, or that not enough collectors bought the figure; it most likely means that no one from any other consumer group was willing to bite YET. It also points to the idea that Coronation Starscream really is more aimed at collectors period.

But those Starscreams won't be there a year from now and hasbro does not do buybacks, so everything will have been sold to consumers in one way or another. And we know that collectors are the ones who bought them first, while the rest are purchased for kids birthdays and christmas. So there are 10 SS86 Starscreams, 3 of them sold within the first month (most probably to older fans) and the rest stayed there for a long time. However, all will be sold after a 1 year cycle of birthdays and holidays.
So that's 3 out of 10 sold to older fans and 7 out of 10 to be sold for kids.
30% according to your own example, which is the same stat Hasbro gave.

So what am I not seeing?

Your examples have to do with what you are seeing selling (currently) on your shelf, but instead you have to look at the entire picture to get the true stat. Think back to all the toys that you chose not to buy (either because you didn't want or because you already had it) that you kept seeing on your shelf for months at a time a year ago, or two years ago, are they still on shelves now? Seeing that there are 7 starscreams out of 10 left means that there are 7 starscreams left for general public to buy once the older fans took the ones they wanted.

This is very similar to when I read fans saying "man there's so much cyberverse and its always on the shelf, not selling", which is a fallacy but it seems true to them because they choose recency bias (the same toys were there last week) rather than actually sitting down and looking at the facts.

We have a TF wiki that shows all the previously released Cyberverse figures and we have entertainment earth showing the case assortments for rereleases, of which there are plenty. Jot down all the figures released and then go to a shelf and check how many of those you still see on the shelf. All the ones you don't see have been sold. But it didn't appear that way because people forgot what the shelf looked like a year ago.

In the end, while I get your use of logic as a fan and what people may think, and going through that approach, the only facts that matter are sales, and Hasbro pays millions to keep abreast on that while none of us do. So that's what I go with too.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:My other example is based on figures such as Blaster, Wreck-gar, Scourge, and well, any of them.
Soundwave, Cosmos, Galvatron...
Collector: "Finally, a good update of Blaster!!"
Average adult: "Why would a robot turn into a boombox?"
Kid: "What's a 'boombox', and why would I play with this?"
Everyone: "Why is this $33??"

The average kid, even kids my sons ages (teens an pre-teens) would look at those alt modes and be puzzled.

I agree on your whole analysis. Maybe it's not collectors per-say, but at least adults.

Remember WfC Blaster and Soundwave? I get the entire reasoning behind that. I don't get boombox Blaster or microscope Perceptor. I mean, I'm glad we're getting them, but I don't get how that aims at today's kids.

I mean I can see how a kid might want Perceptor because he was in Cyberverse. Okay. But why make G1 Perceptor? Why not just make Cyberverse Perceptor? Why make G1 Studio Series Dinobots as opposed to leader class Cyberverse ones? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we have what we have, but it doesn't makes sense to me as opposed to the older CHUG lines where they were updated or were tie-ins to a game or something.

Aside from the major Transformers characters like Bumblebee and Optimus Prime, character selection for Transformers don't matter in general since the action figure's identity is secondary to the toy. It doesnt matter if Perceptor was in cyberverse or whatnot, what matters most is that he is a robot that transforms.



The reason you see G1 targetted characters is to get that extra 30% of sales from fans, which is not insiginificant at all, and because this is what the brand managers have chosen to release, what they preferred to work on.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:My other example is based on figures such as Blaster, Wreck-gar, Scourge, and well, any of them.
Soundwave, Cosmos, Galvatron...
Collector: "Finally, a good update of Blaster!!"
Average adult: "Why would a robot turn into a boombox?"
Kid: "What's a 'boombox', and why would I play with this?"
Everyone: "Why is this $33??"

The average kid, even kids my sons ages (teens an pre-teens) would look at those alt modes and be puzzled.

I agree on your whole analysis. Maybe it's not collectors per-say, but at least adults.

Remember WfC Blaster and Soundwave? I get the entire reasoning behind that. I don't get boombox Blaster or microscope Perceptor. I mean, I'm glad we're getting them, but I don't get how that aims at today's kids.

I mean I can see how a kid might want Perceptor because he was in Cyberverse. Okay. But why make G1 Perceptor? Why not just make Cyberverse Perceptor? Why make G1 Studio Series Dinobots as opposed to leader class Cyberverse ones? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we have what we have, but it doesn't makes sense to me as opposed to the older CHUG lines where they were updated or were tie-ins to a game or something.

Shameless plug aside, catering to G1 doesn't make financial sense anymore. WFC, the MP collection and Studio Series '86 should be the end of it.
It is old, if not outright redundant, media now. Three decades have passed.

Hasbro needs to steer the franchise exclusively towards the new shows and films, to stay relevant. Nostalgia only goes so far. It is also aimed squarely at a niche and ever diminishing audience.

Core class Wheelie review is up
Uploaded by primevsprime

@Soundwave76, just to jog the memory, this is what US Targets looked like last holiday season, six months after SS Slag was first found in the US, way after collectors had their fill. Can anyone tell me how many of those Slags are still left on shelves in Target today?

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Gotta say, I don't relate on his take on robot characters at all.

Okay, sure, colors and shapes, and puzzle boxes. But as a child I WANTED Optimus Prime. I WANTED Bumblebee. Never got Bee as a kid; I pretended this offbrand yellow bug was bee. But I really wanted characters and I'd sometimes pretend one toy was another character if I had to (I called Scourge Cyclonus because that's who I really wanted).

I liked TFs a lot. And, sure, I'd be grateful to get a genericon ... but Hot Rod was on my Christmas list every year for ages (never got him as a kid).

But, I guess, if they don't think it matters if it's a robot toy based on pure 80s nostalgia and that's why they're doing it ... I guess I'll take it.

I was like you as a kid but with Beast Wars, wanting Megatron and Primal. Then again, now that I think of it, I did also like the non show characters. And G1 has a ton of non show characters that fans still cherish to this day. So that definitely adds up to the video that kids (in the 80s and still now) don't really care about the character, as compared to getting a cool toy.

Hell, Boba Fett's lingering popularity is only because his toy looked cool

Transformers Studio Series Wheelie is out at retail now! And, Prime vs Prime has a review for you so you can see if you like this figure or not. It suffered heavy criticism from fans for the exposed hands and for looking inferior to the previous Titans Return version. Let us know what you think of this version and if you'll be hunting it down.

Still odd that Wheelie has had so much exposure lately? I'd love to know how big the Wheelie fanbase actually is. Literally everyone I've ever talked to has hated him since his debut.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Still odd that Wheelie has had so much exposure lately? I'd love to know how big the Wheelie fanbase actually is. Literally everyone I've ever talked to has hated him since his debut.

Could be more to do with checking boxes off. While they're aware they've done the character 6 years ago (side note: yikes 6 years since Titans Returns...) they're probably thinking of new fans wanting a representation of him...one that can transform of course

william-james88 wrote:@Soundwave76, just to jog the memory, this is what US Targets looked like last holiday season, six months after SS Slag was first found in the US, way after collectors had their fill. Can anyone tell me how many of those Slags are still left on shelves in Target today?

OOH! I may not be Sowndwave76 and I have no real stake in this argument, but as the individual who took and provided this picture back in November, I can confirm that that Target has 4-5 total Slugs and Grindors left over at this point from the combination of that endcap and the Leaders that were on the TF aisle at the same time. That endcap in the picture ended up becoming an endcap for all TF sizes once enough of those Leaders were gone, then the still-remaining Leaders got migrated to a different endcap while the first endcap got dedicated to general toy stock from multiple lines, and now there's only stock of those two Leaders left in the actual TF section. Said Target has seemingly not restocked SS Leaders since that initial endcap of just Slugs and Grindors, but honestly they could have and I would not have been able to tell.

I need and arcee that's:
Less than 50 bucks (U.S.)
Looks enough like G1 in Robot mode (pink, lelia buns)
Good transformation
Not too big of a backpack
Isn't an embarrassment to own


I but legends if it was 40 but its 70!

RodimusPrimeUkraine1 wrote:I need and arcee that's:
Less than 50 bucks (U.S.)
Looks enough like G1 in Robot mode (pink, lelia buns)
Good transformation
Not too big of a backpack

If you want to have the "perfect" deluxe Arcee, stop being a scrooge and pay the price. You have only two options left. Go old school and do what people did before the Generations T-30 Arcee existed.
either you get an Animated Arcee with a custom head, or you get the Igear MGT-01 Delicate Warrior.

RodimusPrimeUkraine1 wrote:Isn't an embarrassment to own

Stop acting like a damn CHILD. Just embrace your shameful and embarrassing hobby without a care like a real adult would.

---------

After all that help over multiple posts, if you're still not satisfied you're on your own.

Nemesis Primal wrote:

william-james88 wrote:@Soundwave76, just to jog the memory, this is what US Targets looked like last holiday season, six months after SS Slag was first found in the US, way after collectors had their fill. Can anyone tell me how many of those Slags are still left on shelves in Target today?

OOH! I may not be Sowndwave76 and I have no real stake in this argument, but as the individual who took and provided this picture back in November, I can confirm that that Target has 4-5 total Slugs and Grindors left over at this point from the combination of that endcap and the Leaders that were on the TF aisle at the same time. That endcap in the picture ended up becoming an endcap for all TF sizes once enough of those Leaders were gone, then the still-remaining Leaders got migrated to a different endcap while the first endcap got dedicated to general toy stock from multiple lines, and now there's only stock of those two Leaders left in the actual TF section. Said Target has seemingly not restocked SS Leaders since that initial endcap of just Slugs and Grindors, but honestly they could have and I would not have been able to tell.

My question was directed at anyone who could answer it so I thank you very much for getting back to me. And that is crazy cool to know that that end cap and the leaders in the TF section along with any restock (if it happened) practically sold out, including the grindors. And they were higher priced figures, wow, love seeing that apetite for TFs at retail.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

RodimusPrimeUkraine1 wrote:I need and arcee that's:
Less than 50 bucks (U.S.)
Looks enough like G1 in Robot mode (pink, lelia buns)
Good transformation
Not too big of a backpack

If you want to have the "perfect" deluxe Arcee, stop being a scrooge and pay the price. You have only two options left. Go old school and do what people did before the Generations T-30 Arcee existed.
either you get an Animated Arcee with a custom head, or you get the Igear MGT-01 Delicate Warrior.

RodimusPrimeUkraine1 wrote:Isn't an embarrassment to own

Stop acting like a damn CHILD. Just embrace your shameful and embarrassing hobby without a care like a real adult would.

---------

After all that help over multiple posts, if you're still not satisfied you're on your own.

Animated Arcee with a custom head is probably the best bet, a good amalgamation of Arcees thanks to Animated being a fanwank hodge podge (I mean that in a good way, trust me), and probably isn't expensive to get nowadays. Plus it's a nice toy with nice stylings that isn't trying to emulate a design that never considered how transformation would work in the real world.

Either that or just buy the current retail Arcee and accept it.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Still odd that Wheelie has had so much exposure lately? I'd love to know how big the Wheelie fanbase actually is. Literally everyone I've ever talked to has hated him since his debut.

I never had a problem with the character. I'd love to see a Generations Selects version based on the look from the old story book, Wheelie was portrayed as a lost jungle boy who had to adapt to survive.

RodimusPrimeUkraine1 wrote:I need and arcee that's:
Less than 50 bucks (U.S.)
Looks enough like G1 in Robot mode (pink, lelia buns)
Good transformation
Not too big of a backpack
Isn't an embarrassment to own


I but legends if it was 40 but its 70!

Get the SS86 one already available for preorder.

william-james88 wrote:

RodimusPrimeUkraine1 wrote:I need and arcee that's:
Less than 50 bucks (U.S.)
Looks enough like G1 in Robot mode (pink, lelia buns)
Good transformation
Not too big of a backpack
Isn't an embarrassment to own


I but legends if it was 40 but its 70!

Get the SS86 one already available for preorder.

Already been discussed but Mr is a "picky eater."